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Which of the following descriptions best characterizes you?

R&R
22 (50%)
Sedevacantist
10 (22.7%)
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5 (11.4%)
Other
4 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 36

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Author Topic: Describe Your Catholic Identity  (Read 3171 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Describe Your Catholic Identity
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2019, 11:18:48 PM »
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 30, 2019, 11:11:13 PM
My issue is more the perceived attitude of not wanting communion with him, than the disobedience.  Like I see this all the time, I realize the Resistance criticizes the SSPX for other things (and I'm not saying all of those things are wrong), but sometimes it seems to come down to criticizing them for even dialoguing with Rome or trying to get canonical status.  Which I don't get.  Like if he's your head, shouldn't you at least *want* to be in communion with him, and want to dialogue in order to create a way that you *can* be in normal communion without compromising on principles?  That's the part I don't understand.

Ahh!

This is correct: If you read my book, I cite 15+ examples from 1988 on, showing Lefebvre affirming both:

No discussions with Rome, and no canonical solution before Rome converts.

Ps: Fr. Pagliarani openly says Rome need not convert.
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Offline ByzCat3000

Re: Describe Your Catholic Identity
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 12:37:26 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on October 30, 2019, 11:18:48 PM
Ahh!

This is correct: If you read my book, I cite 15+ examples from 1988 on, showing Lefebvre affirming both:

No discussions with Rome, and no canonical solution before Rome converts.

Ps: Fr. Pagliarani openly says Rome need not convert.
That seems inconsistent to me (with affirming that the See is occupied) but I could be missing something, or I could be right but you could still be right.

Saying Rome doesn't need to convert in *any* capacity seems wrong.  even if for the sake of argument they aren't formally heretical, they're still pretty grievously off doctrinally.
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Offline LaramieHirsch

Re: Describe Your Catholic Identity
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2019, 01:04:19 AM »

Quote
"Describe Your Catholic Identity"


I am a radical.
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Online Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Describe Your Catholic Identity
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2019, 10:06:50 AM »
Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 30, 2019, 07:43:57 PM
But I don't just understand the concept of like, okay, we recognize that you're the Pope, yet we don't want to be in communion with you.  Your Church is completely different from our Church, but somehow you're still Pope.
It actually goes like this: "We recognize that you're the Pope(s), but we will offend God and lose the faith if we do the things you promote. If you ever want us to do something Catholic, say so and we will be obliged to obey". 
 
It is really not all that complicated once you accept the fact that all popes have always been able to do what only the conciliar popes have actually done. IOW, simply believe your own eyes. For many, this is easier said than done, and for most of these, apparently it is all but impossible to believe their own eyes.



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Offline ByzCat3000

Re: Describe Your Catholic Identity
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2019, 03:21:05 PM »
Quote from: Stubborn on November 03, 2019, 10:06:50 AM
It actually goes like this: "We recognize that you're the Pope(s), but we will offend God and lose the faith if we do the things you promote. If you ever want us to do something Catholic, say so and we will be obliged to obey".  
 
It is really not all that complicated once you accept the fact that all popes have always been able to do what only the conciliar popes have actually done. IOW, simply believe your own eyes. For many, this is easier said than done, and for most of these, apparently it is all but impossible to believe their own eyes.
My issue is the part where canonical regularity is actually denounced rather than pursued given specific criteria.  It seems like the Resistance doesn't even want to *dialogue* with Rome.
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