Author Topic: Defending Valtorta  (Read 22518 times)

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Offline Centroamerica

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Defending Valtorta
« on: September 14, 2015, 09:51:40 PM »
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  • Number CDXXVI (426)
    September 12, 2015
    Defending Valtorta

    ”The Poem of the Man-God” – tale sublime,
    Truth of the Gospel, retold for our time.

    Concerning the “Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta (1897–1961), a life of Our Lord extending to ten volumes written in Italian in the 1940’s, an Italian priest, Don Ottavio Michelini, is alleged to have heard in the 1970’s, from Our Lord himself, the following comments:—

    “I have dictated to Maria Valtorta, a victim soul, a marvellous work (The Poem of the Man-God). Of this work I am the Author. You yourself, my son, have recognized Satan reacting with fury to it . . . . You have observed yourself the resistance that many priests oppose to this work. ( . . . ) If it were – I do not say “read” – but studied and meditated, it would do an immense good to souls. This work is a well-spring of serious and solid culture . . . . This is a work willed by Wisdom and Divine Providence for the new times. It is a spring of living and pure water. It is I, the Word living and eternal, Who have given Myself anew as nourishment to the souls that I love. I, Myself, am the Light, and the Light cannot be confused with, and still less blend Itself with, the darkness. Where I am found, the darkness is dissolved to make way for the Light.”

    Maria Valtorta is the 20th century equivalent of Maria of Agreda and Anne-Catherine Emmerich, of the 17th and 19th centuries respectively. The two earlier visionaries have by now gained wide respect within the Catholic Church, but Maria Valtorta is still controversial. Now one may admit that her “Poem” is not to everybody’s taste. It need not be forced on anybody. It is not a substitute for the Gospel. It is not necessary for salvation. And it may seem highly dubious to support the writings of one alleged visionary with the words of another, especially when the supporting witness is as little well known as Don Michelini.

    However, there are souls all over the world for whom the “Poem” has ac ted like a stupendous gift of God himself, for whom it has seemed to be designed to alleviate the spiritual distress of our own times, which is becoming more and more unbearable for many. Therefore these “Comments” will dare to put before readers, once more, reasons to take seriously the testimony of Don Michelini and to interest themselves in the “Poem,” so as possibly to profit by it before God intervenes in spectacular fashion to relieve that distress. Let these reasons be the briefest of summaries of the seven reasons given supposedly by Our Lord at the end of the “Poem” for his having revealed its contents to Maria Valtorta:—

    1 Doctrine – while modernism wreaks havoc with the Church’s unchanging teaching, souls need to see how I gave the selfsame teaching to the Church, from the start: divine, perfect, immutable.

    2 Love – when charity is growing cold and sentimental, priests and layfolk need their love for Christ and for all that c oncerns Christ to be re-awakened, especially for his Mother.

    3 Direction – when souls are going astray in so many different directions, spiritual directors need to see in how many different ways I looked after them.

    4 Reality – when love is so widely falsified and sullied, human beings need to see Jesus and Mary as true human beings of flesh and blood, with a perfect love, but truly human, between them.

    5 Suffering – when comfort everywhere comes first, pleasure-seekers need to know how long and varied were the sufferings of my Mother and myself, starting tens of years before the Passion.

    6 Word – when language is utterly debased, people need to see the power of my Word, of my words, to transform souls, e.g. from rough sinners into great Apostles.

    7 Judas – when evil is so sentimentalized as to be denied, sinners must be shown the mystery of iniquity in human form, so as not to follow Judas to Hell.

    Kyri e eleison.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Domitilla

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #1 on: September 14, 2015, 11:23:27 PM »
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  • +Williamson really enjoys generating controversy .....


    Offline Nickolas

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 12:28:41 AM »
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  • With all the battles to be fought at this point in Church history, why this, why now?  The Church is crushed almost beyond recognition under the weight of modernism, the True Mass is on life support and the heretical "man god" poem is worth our the thoughts and discussion of a Bishop?  Now?  Really?  

    Reading through each of the 7 "reasons" to like the poem according to Bishop Williamson, I can honestly say that NONE of them make sense to me at all.  Do I lack faith?  Am I not pious enough, done enough reading and praying for the scandalous poem to teach me something about our Blessed Lord?  Well, I do lack enough faith, have not prayed enough, nor have I done enough reading and study, but never will this poem be a blessing to my eyes or my faith, no matter who recommends it to me.  

    May my thoughts and life rest on the truths spoken by our Blessed Lord in His Sermon on the Mount.  Now that is something worthy of my time and indeed would be a blessing in each of the so called 7 "reasons"  put forth in the column.  

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5-7&version=DRA

    Offline Marlelar

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 02:00:08 AM »
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  • If it truly is from God then I guess it will stand the test of time just as did the writings of Maria of Agreda and Anne-Catherine Emmerich.

    Maybe I'll hang around for two or three hundred years and find out.  In the mean time I think I'll stick with those writers who have already stood the test of time, there are plenty of holy writers out there that I can read during the next century or three while I'm waiting.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 04:20:15 AM »
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  • Still no discussion about the SSPX priests and the Year of Mercy announcement.  Why?
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


    Offline Croixalist

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 04:21:57 AM »
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  • Nothing that feminizes Christ and the Apostles will stand the test of time. This is one of the few times Bishop Williamson gets it completely wrong.
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 04:42:31 AM »
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  • I've never heard of the poem, but he says it's six volumes.  Anybody read it?
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline shin

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 05:44:45 AM »
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  • I had the sad experience of reading just a few lines of it in an article exposes its horrors.

    Just keep away from that thing.

    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 07:45:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Still no discussion about the SSPX priests and the Year of Mercy announcement.  Why?


    Exactly.  He has nothing better to write about?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 07:51:02 AM »
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  • Quote from: Bishop Williamson
    Concerning the “Poem of the Man-God” by Maria Valtorta (1897–1961), a life of Our Lord extending to ten volumes written in Italian in the 1940’s, an Italian priest, Don Ottavio Michelini, is alleged to have heard in the 1970’s, from Our Lord himself, the following comments:—


     :facepalm:

    Bishops Williamson's Achilles Heel, excessive credulity with regard to [anything that purports to be] private revelation.

    Quote from: Bishop Williamson
    Maria Valtorta is the 20th century equivalent of Maria of Agreda and Anne-Catherine Emmerich, of the 17th and 19th centuries respectively.


     :roll-laugh1:

    Quote from: Bishop Williamson
    However, there are souls all over the world for whom the “Poem” has acted like a stupendous gift of God himself, for whom it has seemed to be designed to alleviate the spiritual distress of our own times,


    Reminiscent of his comments regarding the New Mass, that subjectively it helps people.

    Offline Adolphus

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 08:34:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica


    I've never heard of the poem, but he says it's six volumes.  Anybody read it?


    I will quote Bp. Williamson himself, emphasis mine:

    «Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she [Maria Valtorta] was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God.»

    «the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s»

    [It was the Holy Office, under Card. Ottaviani.]

    «The Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors.»

    «Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels.»

    Now, from "The Angelus" in 1991:

    Quote
    Q. What do you think of The Poem of the Man God by Maria Valtorta? (B.K., Buddina, Australia)

    A. These books have never received an imprimatur. I have in my possession a statement of Archbishop Lefebvre advising against their reading (it is still in my packed trunks!). These books appeal too much to the sensitivity. But worse, they contain several passages impossible to be from God; passages which are tantamount to blasphemy. For instance, Maria Valtorta presents Mary as asking her mother Anne: "Tell me, mummy, can one be a sinner out of love of God? ...I mean to commit a sin in order to be loved by God, Who becomes Savior." How could the Immaculate Virgin even think such a thing, since she was full of that Charity which "dealeth not perversely, ...thinketh no evil" (I Cor. 13:4-5). She knew too well that "the damnation of those who say, 'let us do evil, that there may come good is just!" (Rom. 3:8)

    In another place, Valtorta presents Mary as ignoring the gifts she had received from God: "I did not know I was without stain!" How could this be in she who had received to the fullness the Spirit of God, "that we may know the things that are given us from God" (I Cor. 2:12). In her Magnificat, Our Lady manifests that she knew "the great things" which the Lord had done in her.

    Other statements are even worse, which reverence for God and even mere decency prevents us printing here. If you need more information, you may contact Father Cooper, at The Angelus Press.

    Conclusion: these books must not be read! The Angelus Press here apologizes to its readers for having carried these titles in its catalogue, upon the misguided recommendation of good men.


    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 08:35:13 AM »
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  • These  books will NEVER will be part of my library.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 09:48:16 AM »
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  • Quote
    Nothing that feminizes Christ and the Apostles will stand the test of time. This is one of the few times Bishop Williamson gets it completely wrong.


    We read the Poem each day religiously.  A friend gave us two volumes of the older edition.  We purchased three others (of the original edition) online. (Copies of the old editions are scarce and pretty expensive too) One can easily purchase online the latest edition 10 volume set today at a reasonable price.  We read them as we do the Bible, and make no apology for it.  They are inspired of God, I am persuaded.  There is no feminization of Christ and the Apostles in any of these books.  Bp. Williamson gets it completely right.

    Offline TKGS

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #13 on: September 15, 2015, 10:06:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    We read the Poem each day religiously.  A friend gave us two volumes of the older edition.  We purchased three others (of the original edition) online. (Copies of the old editions are scarce and pretty expensive too) One can easily purchase online the latest edition 10 volume set today at a reasonable price.  We read them as we do the Bible, and make no apology for it.  They are inspired of God, I am persuaded.  There is no feminization of Christ and the Apostles in any of these books.  Bp. Williamson gets it completely right.


    Quote
    «the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s»


    Let's see.  hollingsworth...Holy Office...hollingsworth...Holy Office.

    Rats!  I just can't figure out whom to trust.  

    Frankly, Bishop Williamson's promotion of a book placed on The Index was the reason I stopped listening to Bishop Williamson as a credible counselor on matters of the faith and of tradition.  It's one thing to air disagreements over issues that have come up since the Vatican council of the 1960s and the general apostasy of Rome; it's quite another thing to declare the pre-Vatican 2 Holy Office to be in error.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Defending Valtorta
    « Reply #14 on: September 15, 2015, 10:33:48 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    it's quite another thing to declare the pre-Vatican 2 Holy Office to be in error.


    Yep.  Although, if an Ecumenical Council can be disregarded, why not the Holy Office?


     

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