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Author Topic: Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer The Lefebvrians  (Read 870 times)

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Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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  • 07/25/2012
    Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer
    The Lefebvrians


    The Lefebvrians
    Fellay’s reply has not arrived yet. But there is still some hope for the Fraternity’s three “conditions”…
    Andrea Tornielli
    vatican city

    The reply of the Superior of the Society of St. Pius X to the doctrinal preamble that was delivered to him on 13 June has not yet reached Rome. But even if it arrives in the next few weeks, there will be no one to examine it because the Prefect of the Congregation, Gerhard Müller, is going on holiday and so are the vice-president and the secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei. Even though the General Chapter of the Society of St. Pius X has concluded, Fellay could take a while to respond.



    At the meeting in June, the Fraternity’s superior promised to give a response “within a reasonable lapse of time.” But Rome is very familiar with the Society’s internal situation and the delicate role Fellay Plays. Hence they do not intend to hurry the Fraternity. The latest version of the doctrinal preamble – discussed by cardinals of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and approved by the Pope – is considered by the Holy See to be definitive and not subject to any significant changes. The Vatican has pointed out that those who claim that the preamble of 13 June essentially repeated what the initial version of the text (prepared by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in September 2011) said, failing to take the Fraternity’s proposals into account, is wrong. A Vatican Insider source confirms that “the latest version acknowledges various proposals and suggestions made by Mgr. Fellay.”


    At the request of the Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, two points were added again to the preamble: the first relates to the mass according to the Novus Ordo, the new rite of mass promulgated after the Second Vatican Council. Lefebvrians are asked to recognise not only the validity of the new mass but its legitimacy as well. This does not mean liturgical abuses cannot be criticised or that the post-Council liturgical reform and its implementation cannot be discussed.

     


    The other point is to do with the Council and its magisterium. The Holy See cannot accept the assertion that the Second Vatican Council docuмentation contains “errors” and is asking the Fraternity to distinguish between the Council texts and the interpretation of the Council texts, accepting the fact that the magisterium cannot be judged by another group - in this case the Society of St. Pius X – which would end up becoming a sort of “super-magisterium”.

     


    “The purpose of dialogue is to overcome the difficulties in the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council, but we cannot negotiate on revealed faith; this is impossible. An ecuмenical Council, according to the Catholic faith, is always the Church’s supreme magisterium,” stated the new Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Gerhard Müller, in an interview with Catholic news network EWTN News.” “The claim that the authentic teachings of the Second Vatican Council – he added – formally clash with Church tradition, is false.”

     


    As the Vatican awaits Fellay’s response, it has examined closely the circular letter (which is confidential but as usual has ended up on the web) sent by the General Secretariat of the Society of St. Pius X  to the various Districts summarising the position which emerged during the Society’s recent General Chapter. The three absolute conditions (“sine qua non”) the Society of St. Pius X has put forward for an agreement with Rome have been formulated in such a way so that it leaves some room for hope: for example the request for the exclusive use of the 1962 liturgy is reiterated, but nothing is said about the legitimacy of the new mass.

     

    The demand for the right to freely and publicly criticise “the promoters of the errors or the innovations of modernism, liberalism, and Vatican II and its aftermath” could in the end be interpreted in a less harsh way than expected. “It all depends on the response Mgr. Fellay will give to Rome,” the Vatican stressed.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)


    Offline Columba

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    Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer The Lefebvrians
    « Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 12:40:52 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    At the request of the Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, two points were added again to the preamble: the first relates to the mass according to the Novus Ordo, the new rite of mass promulgated after the Second Vatican Council. Lefebvrians are asked to recognise not only the validity of the new mass but its legitimacy as well. This does not mean liturgical abuses cannot be criticised or that the post-Council liturgical reform and its implementation cannot be discussed.

    The other point is to do with the Council and its magisterium. The Holy See cannot accept the assertion that the Second Vatican Council docuмentation contains “errors”

    In other words, through Archbishop Lefebvre's positions under a bus like Bishop Rifan did with Bishop Castro de Mayer.

    Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
    the magisterial cannot be judged by another group - in this case the Society of St. Pius X – which would end up becoming a sort of “super-magisterium”.

    The Vatican II "magisterium" is not being unambiguously "judged" or interpreted by anyone. The Vatican hints that liberal interpretations are inadequate but provides no clear non-liberal interpretation. That is probably because:

    1. Many council texts simply cannot be interpreted in a non-liberal way.
    2. The current Vatican power structure is beholden to liberal interpretations.
    3. John XXIII and council hijackers repeated asserted a non-dogmatic council status but the Vatican subsequently reneged on that proviso and held the council to be dogmatic after the fact.

    Since the Vatican refuses to clearly explain its position on the council, the tree can only be judged by its fruit and the docuмents by their text.


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer The Lefebvrians
    « Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 02:44:11 PM »
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  • Quote from Andrea Tornielli:
    "At the request of the Pope and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, two points were added again to the preamble: the first relates to the mass according to the Novus Ordo, the new rite of mass promulgated after the Second Vatican Council. Lefebvrians are asked to recognise not only the validity of the new mass but its legitimacy as well. This does not mean liturgical abuses cannot be criticised or that the post-Council liturgical reform and its implementation cannot be discussed."

    And again:

    "The three absolute conditions (“sine qua non”) the Society of St. Pius X has put forward for an agreement with Rome have been formulated in such a way so that it leaves some room for hope: for example the request for the exclusive use of the 1962 liturgy is reiterated, but nothing is said about the legitimacy of the new mass."


    Nothing is said about the legitimacy of the new mass because + Fellay knows where that missal will lead him: to the "reform of the reform", or as it is stated on the first paragraph: "the post-Council liturgical reform".
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline magdalena

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    Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer The Lefebvrians
    « Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 05:06:57 PM »
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  • As will the 1962 missal lead to the "reform of the reform"/the hybrid (2012) missal if +Fellay "officially" completes his agreement with neo-Rome.  And with change after change, where will the 2012 missal lead to come the NWO?  The purified SSPX would fare better with the untainted 1950 missal.    
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline AntiFellayism

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    Decision on Lefebvrians expected after summer The Lefebvrians
    « Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 07:55:33 PM »
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  • I thought one of the members of the neo-sspx cult had said the answer would be in Rome's hand in a couple of days after the GC was over...
    Non Habemus Papam