Author Topic: Critical point about Why the Resistance (Read 4905 times)

BrJoseph · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2013, 06:37:56 PM »

There are people in the Resistance who do say to stop going to the SSPX Masses. I am one of them. By going, you give the impression that you condone the new change of direction. There is no getting around this.

By going and not contributing money, as some people are proud to announce, you are behaving in a dishonest fashion, accepting the services that they offer without paying for them.

People are afraid to stop going. They seem to think that God will only operate through the normal channels of offering Grace and therefore will be displeased by our staying away.

Yes, if we stay away due to laziness, He will be offended. If we stay away on principle, He may actually be more pleased and will offer Grace for our efforts.

Please review the arguments and suggestions offered on our blog:
http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2013, 07:16:50 PM »

I think there's been some misunderstanding, so allow me to clarify:

My main point, and my reason for starting this thread, was to point out the danger to those who choose to stay ignorant, who choose to give Bishop Fellay unlimited amounts of trust, or who plan to stay at the SSPX indefinitely.

Because the same thing happened 43 years ago -- some people gave WAY too much trust to their priests, the Pope, etc. and they chose to stay indefinitely, like it was the only decent choice (or the only choice). Many of them ended up going from SUPER trust to NO trust as they apostatized!

It's a point that needs to be thought about deeply.

It's the same as the man who fasts too much and then gives up fasting out of exasperation, and embraces gluttony. At first, the man seems to be more holy. But since he is objectively doing too much, it's actually bad. The bad results might come later, but they will come.

Likewise, those who wish to "trust" the SSPX seem to have nothing we can chastise them for. But that trust WILL come back to bite them, if they end up going Novus Ordo, giving up on all organizations, losing the Faith, etc.

It's always good to calmly and rationally pursue the truth and what is right.

Matthew · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2013, 07:23:33 PM »

Quote from: BrJoseph

By going and not contributing money, as some people are proud to announce, you are behaving in a dishonest fashion, accepting the services that they offer without paying for them.

I'm sorry, but you are operating on a false concept of the SSPX (which is merely a branch on the tree of the Catholic Church.)

The Church isn't "paid" for their "services". The priests and bishops that make up the Church hierarchy have a duty to feed the flock -- to offer the Sacraments and preach the Faith. They have to take care of every soul that needs the ministry of the Church -- including the poor, homeless, and penniless.

The Faithful, meanwhile, have a duty to support the Church.

We're not exactly "purchasing" Holy Communion, nor is there a fee for Absolution. There is actually a word for that: Simony.

As long as we're supporting the Church, we are justified in this matter. That can be Fr. Pfeiffer's group or Bishop Williamson, or we can give money directly to our SSPX priest (recommended). We need to show our SSPX priests that they won't starve if they do the right thing and oppose the liberal orientation.

We DON'T need to necessarily put any money in the collection plate, especially since we know now that the organization itself is beginning to rot from the top down.

If you are worried that your particular chapel is in danger of becoming unviable, feel free to do something about it. But most chapels won't miss your contributions. The SSPX has *plenty* of money. Just look at how they're spending it now! Slick websites, ad campaigns, hiring an expensive branding agency. Spreading propaganda to the four corners of the earth (Fr. Themann's conference, producing propaganda videos starring Fr. Rostand). They're not hurting for money.

And I almost forgot -- building a massive Disneyland seminary (when other, more economical options would do). They seem to be planning for a massive influx from the Novus Ordo. Do they know something we don't -- perhaps a new religious order that's flagellating themselves night and day for conversions? Because if there isn't something like that going on, there's no reason to expect a bunch of TRUE conversions to the Faith/Tradition (which are the same thing).

No, what they're preparing is for an "opening up" to the modern world, Vatican II style. It isn't that a bunch of people are going to suddenly give up contraception, liberalism and embrace tradition -- no, it's the other way around.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** September 24, 2013, 07:35:15 PM »

Azul,

I apologize -- I wrote this when I was a bit tired, and didn't make the necessary clarifications.

Here is how I clarified it now:

Quote from: Matthew

Some might be "staying" because they don't know what else to do. Like you say, they don't necessarily find any OTHER religion appealing. But still, the smart thing is to LEAVE when the Faith is in danger, even if it means staying at home for a while. Few have the guts to do this.*

*Note I said IF YOUR FAITH IS IN DANGER. That means you're at a chapel where the priest is preaching Vatican II's good points to the congregation, or other funny business is going on. If you are at a chapel where things are still OK, I DO NOT advise that you stay home.

And by "choose to stay" I mean "choose to stay indefinitely, with no future plans to leave".

Someone who plans to stay for a while, or "until X happens" is not really "staying". He's just hanging out until something ideal comes along (Resistance/Trad chapel)

Vatican II = evil.
Defending Vatican II even a little bit = defending evil a little bit
Saying Vatican II is 95% good = saying evil is 95% good

As I said recently, one can't castigate Vatican II enough. It was an unmitigated disaster, and in fact it's the matter of the Third Secret of Fatima. There were three chastisements that occurred in the Twentieth Century: WWI, WW2, and Vatican II. The last of these caused more damage to the world than the previous two.

BrJoseph · « **Reply #14 on:** September 24, 2013, 08:05:30 PM »

First, my comment about contributing is an analogy. It is not appropriate to continue to go to the SSPX Chapels to get the Sacraments without contributing to the upkeep. Sorry, I am not convinced otherwise, and I do not condone simony.

Second, I maintain that people who do not leave, do not leave. The reason for not leaving is irrelevant and conveys the impression that they condone the policies of the place that they are going to.