Author Topic: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!  (Read 1792 times)

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Offline Centroamerica

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Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2018, 10:12:49 PM »
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  • You have not identified which religion you mean.  You actually left it open to mean any religion, like buddist monks or devote jews that can be profoundly lived they way they see it.  You left a very subjective standard.  Just saying.


    Glad you know it.  How about putting the authors name on it.  At least it would refer in some way to the catholic religion.  Just saying.
    Because limited space did not even allow me to finish the quote, much less add the author's name. If you really want to argue semantics, you should choose anther candidate. Religion as says Cicero, comes from the Latin re- ligere meaning to re-align or reconnect oneself with God. There is only one entity which does that and that is the Catholic Church. Therefore, there is only one religion. Since this is a Traditional Catholic forum of which I have been a participating member for nearly a decade now and attended the first consecrations of the Resistance bishops while reporting those events here, even before some knew they would occur, it is not necessary to explicitly state that Religion is Catholic and never anything else. If you're looking for religious indifferentism, look to Bergoglio and not some tag on my profile.
    How about going offline and reading a basic Catechism for adults or something productive now. Skidattle.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline ignatius

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #31 on: June 10, 2018, 10:17:57 PM »
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  • Because limited space did not even allow me to finish the quote, much less add the author's name. If you really want to argue semantics, you should choose anther candidate. Religion as says Cicero, comes from the Latin re- ligere meaning to re-align or reconnect oneself with God. There is only one entity which does that and that is the Catholic Church. Therefore, there is only one religion. Since this is a Traditional Catholic forum of which I have been a participating member for nearly a decade now and attended the first consecrations of the Resistance bishops while reporting those events here, even before some knew they would occur, it is not necessary to explicitly state that Religion is Catholic and never anything else. If you're looking for religious indifferentism, look to Bergoglio and not some tag on my profile.
    How about going offline and reading a basic Catechism for adults or something productive now. Skidattle.

    Temper temper.  Tell that to a visitor on CI.  Doesn't go far does it?


    Offline Matto

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #32 on: June 10, 2018, 10:30:08 PM »
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  • I am kind of a tradcumenist. I dislike the de facto schisms there are in the trad world. I try to be sympathetic towards other trads of all kinds. Sometimes I argue with others who are more "dogmatic" as Matthew calls it. Today I was speaking with a sedevacantist at Church about things and I told him that I was very sympathetic to sedevacantism and that if I had to bet my soul on the pope question I would bet that Francis is not the Pope. But I do not think I need to bet my soul on that question and I no longer worry about it. Worrying about it did not help me and I couldn't figure things out even though I worried about it for a long time. And I don't really know the answer. When I first became a trad I was drawn to the conspiarcy theory that Siri was the true Pope because it seemed to make more sense than R&R or sedevacantism. So I was a real nutty tinfoil hatter. But now I call Francis Pope and give him that title when I speak about him and I do not try to argue with everyone about the pope question. I am not a fan of Father Cekada though as some of you might know and I like Father Chazal and used to like watching his youtube videos. But I don't want to read his book because of the topic just as I was not interested in True or False Pope.
    In a Station of the Metro
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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #33 on: June 12, 2018, 06:04:32 PM »
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  • https://tradidi.com/contra-cekadam

    After many years of Fr. Cekada's taunting and ridicule heaped upon the sons of Archbishop Lefebvre, and in response to the constant barrage of sedevacantist propaganda and polemics, Fr. Chazal decided to expose just how shallow rooted and cunningly deceptive their arguments really are. In his book, appropriately entitled 'Contra Cekadam', he goes through the different courses of an exquisite French menu and looks at the issue from many different angles.

    The book is a must for anyone wanting to arm themselves against the loud and proud advances of the sedevacantists. It is easy to read, and even has an answer to Fr. Cekada's sense of humor: a witty French course in the Doctors and Theologians of the Church, Canon Law, Popes and Councils, St Thomas Aquinas, Scripture, History and last but not least, good old common sense. Included at the back of this book you will get a beautiful chart illustrating just how weird and wonderful the world of sedevacantism really is.
    Even before the book was printed, rumors started going around (I wonder who was behind them?) that Fr. Chazal had embraced sedeprivationism. It won't take the reader long to see that the truth is far from it, and that once again, sedevacantist propaganda is more fiction than fact.

    As a little appetizer, we post here below the Table of Contents, the Foreword by His Excellency Richard Williamson and the text from the Back Cover.


    Table of Contents
    Foreword by Bishop Williamson
    Introduction
    Part One: Doctors, Theologians
    • Middle Ages
    • Renaissance
    • Closer Era (1789-1962)
    Part Two: Canons
    • Canon 188.4
    • A Pope by Divine Right with No Rights Whatsoever
    • Cum Ex and Sedeprivationism
    • Universal Peaceful Acceptance
    • Notoriety
    • In Dubio...
    • In Obscuris…
    • Presumption of Innocence
    Part Three: Popes and Councils
    Part Four: St. Thomas
    Part Five: Scripture
    • Parenthesis: Private Revelations
    Part Six: History
    Part Seven: Common Sense
    Conclusions
    • A False, Modern Notion of Authority
    • An Opinion, Both False and Dangerous, Raised to the Level of Dogma
    • Instant Damnation of the Catholic World
    • Confusion Between Infallibility and Impeccability in the Faith
    • Anarchical Refusal of the Juridical Order of the Church
    • Invisible Apostolic Visibility
    • A Portico to Many Other Errors
    • Francis Gets Away
    Appendix: Chart Of Sedevacantism

    Foreword
    Great Doctors of the Church have written works named from the author of the errors being refuted by the Doctor, for instance St Augustine's Against Cresconius or St Jerome's Against Jovinianus. Both Cresconius and Jovinianus have today been largely or altogether forgotten, but the works of the Doctors live on because the Doctors lay out good Catholic doctrine in refuting the errors. In the same way Fr Chazal names his refutation of sedevacantism (the See-vacant doctrine that the Popes since Vatican II have not been Popes at all) from Fr Anthony Cekada, a long-standing and outstanding defender of the sedevacantist position. Fr Cekada's arguments and opinions have acted like the grain of sand inside an oyster, which by the irritation which it produces makes the oyster produce a pearl.
    Fr Cekada argues as though sedevacantism is not merely one opinion in a difficult and highly disputed question. He presents it as a dogmatic certainty, to refuse which means that one is not Catholic. Fr Chazal has a measure of sympathy for sedevacantists (he prefers them to liberals), and he shows charity towards Fr Cekada, but the great merit of Contra Cekadam is that he proves to any reasonable reader that, at the very least, no Catholic is obliged to accept the sedevacantist position. Fr Cekada writes as though he is a master of theology and of Canon Law, but Fr Chazal has looked up the theologians and the Canons in question and he proves that they are far from proving that the See of Rome has been vacant at any time since Vatican II.

    To do this Fr Chazal goes in turn through the Church's theologians, canonists and Popes, St Thomas Aquinas, Scripture and history with a final resort to common sense. Let us here evoke briefly the theologians and the canonists on whom sedevacantists rely heavily.
    Their favourite theologian is St Robert Bellarmine who held that any Pope becoming a heretic automatically ceases to be Pope. But Fr Chazal opens the books and finds that this opinion is by no means the common opinion of Church theologians, and that Bellarmine himself requires that the Pope concerned be first given two warnings before he is deposed. For indeed, as many other famous theologians argue, the Pope is not just an individual who can lose the faith personally, but he is also head of a worldwide society which cannot function without a head. Nor does the personal loss of faith necessarily impede his headship of the Church. Therefore they argue, for the sake of the Church as a whole, God preserves the Pope's headship until the highest competent Church authorities can make a public declaration of his heresy (to prevent public chaos in the Church), and then and only then does God depose him. No such declaration has been made since Vatican II.

    Sedevacantists also love Canon 188.4 which states that public defection from the faith on the part of a cleric means automatic loss of his office. But many other Canons and the other sections of Canon 188 clearly show that this “public defection” must include the cleric's intent to resign by such acts as, for instance, attempting marriage or joining a sect, and also there must be a warning and official monitions before the cleric loses his office. Common justice calls it the right of self-defence.

    In fact Fr Chazal presents a multitude of arguments which prove the human wisdom and patience of Mother Church in dealing with faulty ministers. For the sake of the Church as a whole, it is not only the Pope who does not have his head immediately cut off, as sedevacantists seem to think. The wheels of God may grind exceeding small but they also grind slowly, as the proverb says.
    If anybody wishes to learn just how little the position of the sedevacantists is binding on Catholics, by all means let them read this brief and entertaining study by Fr Chazal.

    +Richard Williamson, Broadstairs, 20 February, 2018.

    Back Cover
    Francis is a total disgrace for the office of the Papacy. He is even lacking the good manners of Benedict XVI and the paternal ways of John Paul II, his predecessors in heresy. He is Vatican II's logical conclusion, a new Caiphas.
    An important Roman principle remains: "Non Nocere" (do no harm). It was perfectly understood by Archbishop Lefebvre, who retained whatever could be retained of today's Papacy and rejected ever more clearly, especially after 1988, the pestilence of heresy.
    The Papacy is of Divine Institution (can. 100.1),  it still serves a purpose until the end of times. By reducing it to a cardboard level, or denying it's continuation today, a Pandora's box is being opened.
    It will not hurt sedevacantists to hear that if something is left of the authority of Francis, it is in no way to enable him to spread heresy any further. Barriers against heresy were erected by our Fathers: let us use them, even against a reigning Pope.
    While we remain convinced he is a heretic, and while he remains a suspect of heresy before the law, much against his will to destroy, his presence guarantees several indispensible things, which Christ, the Head of the Church, has promised to His Spouse until the end of times.

    Special Offer
    Seeing that a certain seminarian recently approached the owner of a certain forum, asking for a little discount to make the book more affordable, and after seeing the cold response he received there, we decided to try and help those people who would like to read up about the problems with sedevacantism, but who may be struggling to afford the cost of obtaining a copy of Fr. Chazal's book.
    Tradidi has teamed up with Mr Akins and is offering 25 gift vouchers, to the same value as the book sells for (10 USD), available at the Catholic Action Resource Center. You will then only need to pay for the shipping. We only ask you to be honest about your genuine need to take up this offer. Simply send us your name and email address through our contact page and we will email you the gift voucher to be spent purchasing Fr. Chazal's book at Mr Akins' website.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #34 on: June 12, 2018, 06:29:19 PM »
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  • Special Offer
    Seeing that a certain seminarian recently approached the owner of a certain forum, asking for a little discount to make the book more affordable, and after seeing the cold response he received there, we decided to try and help those people who would like to read up about the problems with sedevacantism, but who may be struggling to afford the cost of obtaining a copy of Fr. Chazal's book.

    Since Samuel obviously lurks/reads CathInfo on a daily basis, I will go ahead and respond to him here:

    "of a certain forum" -- come on, you would have looked less bitter and angry if you had made a joke out of it, and said something like "the forum that shall not be named".
    But why not just say CathInfo? Samuel, Samuel... Everyone already knows about CathInfo, unlike your website. When people only have time to check one website, guess which one they check? I bet that bothers you, doesn't it? It's completely futile to try to "bury" CathInfo. You might as well try to hide the sun.

    So once again, despite your protestations to the contrary, you betray your strong emotions in this regard. With "phlegmatics" like you, who needs cholerics? hahaha
    You got bent out of shape (angry) arguing with some sedevacantists on CI a month ago (who are probably banned by now, so you are basically tilting at windmills, or fighting a CathInfo that no longer exists, but I digress) and in the heat of anger you decided CathInfo was a "bad guy". Not just a bad idea for you personally, but an agent of evil that all must avoid, and forevermore. Like I said: emotional.

    "after seeing the cold response" - yes, I took the time to post an appeal on his behalf, and now 2 copies of the book are on the way to the seminarian. My appeal brought in 2 responses, and I had to update the thread before I got more. I'd call that quite a warm response.

    I'm sorry if my personal works of charity don't give you enough emotional warm-fuzzies to merit your personal approval. Again, how emotional are you anyway? I thought phlegmatics weren't that emotional. Oh well -- I guess I can't stop you from judging me. But it just so happens that personally donating money to this particular cause is not in my budget right now. My charity is mostly allocated to raising, homeschooling, sheltering, and feeding 7 young children. And my current job (a contract position) is ending in a few weeks, with nothing lined up or promised after that. Raising a large family is quite difficult these days. Come on, don't you know that?

    But don't let the facts, charity ("making excuses for others"), or the benefit of the doubt get in the way of your Matthew and CathInfo-bashing.
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    Offline obscurus

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #35 on: June 12, 2018, 09:32:55 PM »
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  • I don't wish to speak for Samuel but I don't think you realize the good that Samuel does.

    By the way, I am not interested in "forum wars" or anything of the sort but I perhaps know Samuel a bit more than you (only online alas).

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #36 on: June 12, 2018, 10:43:37 PM »
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  • I wouldn't doubt for a second that you know Samuel better than I. I took back a couple things I said.

    If Samuel has a family, he sure never talks about them -- or even mentions them. Which boggles my mind, because "Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." I'm not saying he should post all kinds of sensitive or private info out on the Internet. But why not mention, from time to time, that you HAVE a wife or HAVE a family?

    But regardless, he doesn't have much use for those who blaze their own trails in the Trad wilderness and don't follow him. And based on his post today, he doesn't have much sympathy for those who can't afford to implement his own particular brand or flavor of "Catholic Action". Apparently my Chant CD/Catholic book apostolate, my Traditional Catholic forum, and my local Resistance group/chapel aren't enough "Catholic Action" for him. And did I mention I'm a married man with a large family -- not exactly a single guy with tons of resources or time on my hands. So if Samuel doesn't like it, then I guess I'm just not meant to please Samuel. Too bad for him. I'm glad I only have to please God to get into heaven!

    I'm glad you can get along with him; he seems to be a very serious Catholic and has a lot of Catholic thought. Part of me is sad that we can't get along. We apparently just rub each other the wrong way. That's how it is sometimes with two "alpha" males, or two cholerics. It's like having 2 roosters in the same flock -- they don't get along. I wish we could get along though.

    But right now, his main friend (on the Internet at least) is Sean Johnson, the dogmatic sedeplenist, who recently came on CathInfo trying to stir up trouble for me (i.e., start an insurrection of some kind -- fortunately he failed miserably) on a day when I was away from my computer super-busy with household duties (which I told him about in a phone call).

    I'd like to be friends with both of them, but apparently it's not meant to be. They want to do this "dogmatic sedeplenist" thing, and they both blame me for allowing anyone to the right of that position on CathInfo. Well, I have to go with my conscience. I don't even personally believe as Sean Johnson does! How could I expect the population of CathInfo to hold his position? I most certainly have my doubts about the Pope. Just like Archbishop Lefebvre did. I'm staying with the R&R position because it's the prudent, safe position to be. There are still no practical benefits to adopting sedevacantism, so why "go there"? But that doesn't mean I'm going to be dogmatic about the status of Pope Francis, one way or the other!
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