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Author Topic: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!  (Read 2610 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
« on: June 05, 2018, 11:43:20 AM »
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  • https://www.chantcd.com/index.php/Contra-Cekadam

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #1 on: June 05, 2018, 12:17:59 PM »
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  • I wonder why he singled out Father Cekada by name.  There are other high-profile dogmatic sedevacantists out there, like +Sanborn.



    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #2 on: June 06, 2018, 09:17:56 AM »
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  • I wonder why he singled out Father Cekada by name.  There are other high-profile dogmatic sedevacantists out there, like +Sanborn.
    That is right, in fact why are we not seeing a book titled Contra Francisco?  The SSPX and its spinoffs have always spent their efforts attacking the relatively small number of sedevacantists, when the true enemies of the Faith are simply allowed to walk about relatively unmolested.
    Sedevacantists did not destroy the Church, The Vatican II criminals have done that and where do they apply their "resistance" efforts?...............right, sedevacantist.
    I said this years ago, we need a real counter-revolutionary movement, not a "recognize and resistance" which serves to enable the perverted status quo to continue on in Christ's Church.

    That is why I take little interest in the sede R&R debates. They simply aren't that important in the bigger picture. We have languished for over 60 years with the current modes of thought with endless analyses of what went wrong.  What are we going to do about it?
    If it is our fault that this happened to the Church (I don't believe that to be entirely true at all), then is it not our fault, and even more so, that we have done nothing about it?

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #3 on: June 06, 2018, 09:28:18 AM »
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  • Sounds good and all, but what exactly do you have in mind? Are we to take page(s) out of the Muslims' handbook? They are quite fervent. They want to kill and blow up their enemies for Allah.

    I appreciate your sentiment, but I fail to see what we can actually do that hasn't already been tried and/or accomplished by mainstream (i.e., "thought of it before oh-so-special-you") Traditional Catholics over the past decades.

    How do you deal with the problem of the modern world, which is always there, always tempting, always influencing the people who live in it? That is the real problem.

    How do you forcefully wake up the majority of Conciliar duped Catholics? They want comfort, acceptance by the world, they live by emotion. If they were plopped in 1930 they would probably "leave" rather than "take" the Faith, because many of them are only there for the inclusivity, multiculturalism, feminism, sappy songs, hand holding, lack of moral demands, etc.

    We've had tabloid "Look at what the pope has done NOW! Ugh!" Traditio and Novus Ordo Watch websites for years. That strategy apparently doesn't work.

    Are you suggesting that if we all became sedevacantist (stopped being afraid of the label, etc.) and started sharing N.O.W. links with all our friends, eventually people would wake up? I say the opposite needs to happen. More teaching, more converting people to Tradition, more retreats, more books, more good example, more one-on-one with people after Mass -- and less worrying about what the Popes/"popes" are doing. Let the dead bury their dead. Shake the dust off your feet already. N.O.W. can't seem to do that.

    Obsession with the abuses of the Novus Ordo is a sign of a NEW convert to Tradition. I suppose that helps some people harden their resolve. But for the more mature Trad, it's time to move beyond such wastes-of-time.

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    Offline ignatius

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #4 on: June 06, 2018, 09:34:18 AM »
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  • I said this years ago, we need a real counter-revolutionary movement, not a "recognize and resistance" which serves to enable the perverted status quo to continue on in Christ's Church.

    That is why I take little interest in the sede R&R debates. They simply aren't that important in the bigger picture. We have languished for over 60 years with the current modes of thought with endless analyses of what went wrong.  What are we going to do about it?

    If it is our fault that this happened to the Church (I don't believe that to be entirely true at all), then is it not our fault, and even more so, that we have done nothing about it?
    Many have asked you what your thoughts are specifically and you have not delineated them.  Wouldn't you think having a solution to present is better than adding to your list its not working?


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #5 on: June 06, 2018, 09:41:59 AM »
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  • Many have asked you what your thoughts are specifically and you have not delineated them.  Wouldn't you think having a solution to present is better than adding to your list its not working?

    JPaul is one of a handful on CathInfo that I playfully dub "the suicide belt" crowd. They throw out various buzzwords like Action, Crusades, Inquisition -- all the while, placing themselves above the whole Traditional Movement, and yet they seem to be sympathetic with everything it stands for. They want the Traditional Movement to succeed (they love the Catholic Faith before Vatican II, and hate the new Conciliar religion), but they give the actual movement, as it exists today with actual people, not just an F, but a "zero" out of 100. They think we're "doing it all wrong" which kind of worries me -- they think we need to be more like the Amish? Muslims? Fascists? some combination of these? or who knows what. What also worries me is that they never elaborate what, precisely, they are advocating!

    The fight is all about resisting the Modern World. That much is certain. Even the whole Crisis in the Church is little more than the Catholic Church hierarchy caving in to the various errors and demands of the Modern World.

    The Modern World is the elephant in the room. A person (say, Archbishop Lefebvre) could have the ideal position or "strategy" and it could still fail, due to the influence of the Modern World upon the PEOPLE involved in the group, school, college, compound, etc.

    Why do you think the SSPX fell? It wasn't because of the position itself. The position is still alive and well in the Resistance, as well as in MANY of the faithful who still attend the SSPX out of necessity. The SSPX compromised because enough of its leaders FELL for various temptations: to be "mainstream", the allure of comfort/money/influence/power, to stop being criticized, to fill the pews with hundreds and thousands, etc. All human motives and failings.

    Who or what put forward these temptations? I would blame the World first, then perhaps the Devil and the Flesh in a tie for 2nd.

    Like I said a couple weeks ago, we need to squabble less about sedevacantism and peering into the mystery of what happened to the recent Popes, and spend more time worrying about our children, friendships, dealing with non-Trad relatives and friends, morality, modesty, education, economics, keeping our wives out of the work world, how men can earn a living in this pagan world, and hundreds of other topics. All of which would belong in the "Catholics living in the modern world" subforum.
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #6 on: June 06, 2018, 12:08:36 PM »
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  • Well all valid Catholic Bishops could start a series of regular meetings and conferences and through the Magisterium and the teaching of the Church especially the teaching of the ancient Fathers look for ways to take action against those who continue to teach other than Christ's doctrine. There have been heresies in the past and they have always been met with action not silence.
    Consider the possibilities of temporarily suspending certain canons to allow for them to address the assault upon the Faith.
    Certain laws of the Church were instituted to assure fidelity and the good order of the Church, not to impede or keep in place elements which deny the Church Her ability to fulfill Her reason for being in a crisis.

    In short, the serious delving into the theology, law, and Tradition to find ways to turn back the flood of heresy and error which continues to destroy the Church. 

    In other words, finding the will and the means to undo that which (through men and the modern world) has been done to the Church and Her Faithful.

    Just a few ideas but by no means all possibilities.  Of course the best idea could indeed fail, but since when have Catholics who love the Church been ruled or thwarted by the fear of failure?  More likely it is the complacency of self interest that prevents most from venturing forth and upsetting their applecart.

    In the intervening 60 years, have we seen any sustained movement along these lines? 

    It is not a matter of "doing it all wrong", it is a matter of ineffectiveness of method. If it is not working, try something different, and then something else again, and have Faith in God. He who gives the command will provide the means to accomplish it.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #7 on: June 06, 2018, 12:15:54 PM »
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  • That's already been thought of, by thousands of people before you. It's called "conclavist sedevacantism". In other words, the "He's not pope. Let's elect a new pope and move on already" option.

    You can "rectify" the Crisis all you want. The ten million dollar question is How To Bring More Than 2 or 3 Families With You On The Way Out?

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #8 on: June 06, 2018, 12:16:37 PM »
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  • Consider the possibilities of temporarily suspending certain canons to allow for them to address the assault upon the Faith.

    Like perhaps the Canon that forbids violence upon any cleric? Hmmm?

    Nevermind, you can keep being vague...we don't want you to get in trouble.
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    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #9 on: June 06, 2018, 01:20:53 PM »
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  • My two cents!

    Truth of the matter is very as in VERY few of us have any strong desire to become saints.  NO surprise there!  It's very hard and very disciplined work!  Most of us, I'm afraid, keep God quite compartmentalized or allow God to be present to us continually throughout the day, just as long as His presence doesn't become too "overbearing."

    A truly strong interior life inevitably leads to Catholic Action which for a hermit can simply be all kinds of heavy duty sacrifices, mortification, watchings, etc. all for the salvation of souls (and the building up of the Church Militant as for example through prayers for good missionaries) starting with the soul of the individual, himself.  A truly strong interior life obviously encompassing a very strong prayer life for a man of the world or a non-cloistered priest or religious will invariably push the man to take concrete exterior actions to help save other souls.

    A truly holy man (i.e., a saint) will be so involved in trying to save the world (i.e. men's souls) that he probably won't have much time, if any, to discuss/debate ways of saving the world (men's souls).

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #10 on: June 06, 2018, 04:07:23 PM »
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  • Like perhaps the Canon that forbids violence upon any cleric? Hmmm?

    Nevermind, you can keep being vague...we don't want you to get in trouble.
    :laugh1: :laugh2: :laugh1:


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #11 on: June 06, 2018, 04:16:35 PM »
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  • My two cents!

    Truth of the matter is very as in VERY few of us have any strong desire to become saints.  NO surprise there!  It's very hard and very disciplined work!  Most of us, I'm afraid, keep God quite compartmentalized or allow God to be present to us continually throughout the day, just as long as His presence doesn't become too "overbearing."

    A truly strong interior life inevitably leads to Catholic Action which for a hermit can simply be all kinds of heavy duty sacrifices, mortification, watchings, etc. all for the salvation of souls (and the building up of the Church Militant as for example through prayers for good missionaries) starting with the soul of the individual, himself.  A truly strong interior life obviously encompassing a very strong prayer life for a man of the world or a non-cloistered priest or religious will invariably push the man to take concrete exterior actions to help save other souls.

    A truly holy man (i.e., a saint) will be so involved in trying to save the world (i.e. men's souls) that he probably won't have much time, if any, to discuss/debate ways of saving the world (men's souls).
    This is a very thoughtful response. Lest we forget our true purpose. Well done!

    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #12 on: June 07, 2018, 04:35:12 PM »
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  • Yes, I wonder too why Fr. Chazel out in the jungle somewhere should concern hmself so much with the intricacies of papal validity obviously excessively exercising the remnant in more civilised climes. I am sure the Asian mind totters on the edge of such finely tuned ecclesiastical procedure engineered in far-off mighty Rome. But then this might not be written for such minds.

    So, we have another attempt to keep the laity connected to a Rome that now hates herself. Emperor Bergoglio plays while Rome burns .... and again blames it on the Christians! We have been here before and the lions are getting hungry! The question then is are trads going to be such easy meat while hoping for a better emperor or do they take up the sword and restore the institution lock stock and barrel? I was reading where even conciliar Catholics now think papal elections are fixed, particularly the last one. So why not topple him? God helps those that help themselves!

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #13 on: June 07, 2018, 05:52:51 PM »
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  • Yes, I wonder too why Fr. Chazel out in the jungle somewhere should concern hmself so much with the intricacies of papal validity obviously excessively exercising the remnant in more civilised climes. I am sure the Asian mind totters on the edge of such finely tuned ecclesiastical procedure engineered in far-off mighty Rome. But then this might not be written for such minds.


    You do realize Fr. Fran├žois Chazal is French, not Asian.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Contra Cekadam by Fr. Francois Chazal - Buy the book here!
    « Reply #14 on: June 07, 2018, 06:33:43 PM »
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  • I say the opposite needs to happen. More teaching, more converting people to Tradition, more retreats, more books, more good example, more one-on-one with people after Mass -- and less worrying about what the Popes/"popes" are doing. Let the dead bury their dead. Shake the dust off your feet already. N.O.W. can't seem to do that.
    The issue is it make evangelisation near impossible when even the Pope himself is trying to subvert your efforts. Imagine trying to teach a non-Catholic anything about the faith, you'd get nowhere. Tell them homosexuality is unnatural and wrong for example -> "But Francis said God loves gays that way" -> "No, no, don't listen to him. Look here at Catholic Dogma." -> "But isn't the Pope the Head of the Church? Why don't you listen to him?" ... you'd go back and forth for hours and they'd just leave thinking the Church was full of loonies and self-contradictory, you'd get nowhere trying to convert someone. You could decide to focus only on the issues  where the Pope won't contradict you, and then after they're further along you can explain the rest more easily. But then, where won't the Pope contradict you? Trads and Vatican II can't even agree on the Sacraments, with the Vatican pumping out new more inclusive forms of BOD constantly and offering Communion to divorced Protestants.

    It's impossible to just ignore what the Pope is doing. If you're trying to convert someone to Catholicism, of course they'll be very interested in what the leader of the Church is saying and doing. And it's very hard to explain why exactly the Pope is saying all these things without going into huge long histories of Vatican 2 and masonic infiltration, and that's way too high-level even for most Catholics, never mind a non-Catholic.

    That's just the thing about the Crisis of the Church - it's causing Catholicism to hemorrhage believers while also making it a colossal feat to try and bring new people in. This is indeed the Great Apostasy.

     

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