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Author Topic: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!  (Read 2539 times)

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Re: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2019, 05:57:57 AM »

No, I don’t think he said this.
.Why then does he (+ Williamson) conditionally ordain NO priests and conditionally confirm previously NO confirmed catholics? Obviously there is the possibility that the NO might not be valid or he wouldn't consider it

Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2019, 07:17:52 AM »
Sedevacantism is schismatic.

Can you cite any authority that supports your supposition? Here are sources that refute it:


F.X. Wernz, P. Vidal: “Finally they cannot be numbered among the schismatics, who refuse to obey the Roman Pontiff because they consider his person to be suspect or doubtfully elected on account of rumours in circulation.” (Ius Canonicuм, 7:398, 1943) 


Rev Ignatius Szal: “Nor is there any schism if one merely transgress a papal law for the reason that one considers it too difficult, or if one refuses obedience inasmuch as one suspects the person of the pope or the validity of his election, or if one resists him as the civil head of a state.” (Communication of Catholics with Schismatics)


De Lugo: “Neither is someone a schismatic for denying his subjection to the Pontiff on the grounds that he has solidly founded [‘probabiliter'] doubts concerning the legitimacy of his election or his power [refers to Sanchez and Palao].” (Disp., De Virt. Fid. Div., disp xxv, sect iii, nn. 


Offline Matthew

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Re: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2019, 09:34:19 PM »
Someone wrote in to the mailbag to say:

Quote
Why has no one refuted the main point of the book, namely that there is no unanimity on the Pope question?
Even Sedes should be able to discuss this point calmly...right?

Offline Matthew

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Re: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2019, 08:43:14 AM »
Please(!!!) correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Bishop Williamson state that as time goes on, there is less and less of a chance that the NO sacraments are confected, due to the fact that there is less and less of a possibility of a valid Episcopacy and valid ordinations due to the dying off of traditionally consecrated Bishops and priests. ( as well as lack of proper intention due to poor priestly formation).
Not trying to put words in the good Bishop's mouth but I thought that's what he said.

I think he did say that.

But do you understand the difference between "some % doubtful" and "it failed"?

Most sedevacantists don't even look for 1% Catholics in the Novus Ordo. They treat them all as literal Lutherans. All the priests (whom they call "presbyters") all the bishops, all the cardinals, etc. They totally write off 100% of the Conciliar Church. When a Novus Ordo comes to their chapel, they treat it like an actual conversion from a protestant sect (not just a "trad-version" or "discovering Tradition") and require abjurations, renouncement of heresies, etc. They require new converts to confess how many times they attended the Novus Ordo, how many times they received communion in the hand, how many times they acknowledged the "false pope", etc.

Bishop Williamson doesn't do this. He conditionally ordains and acknowledges validity issues in many of the sacraments because as time goes on, the "intention to do what the Church does" will be less common, as priests are formed differently.

Re: Contra Cekadam - Against Sedevacantism - back in stock!
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2019, 09:19:14 AM »
I don’t recall him saying the part about an invalid episcopacy because all the validly consecrated bishops are dying off.

This would make him an ecclesiavacantist.

What I do recall him saying several times is an acknowledgment that the validity of the  form of the new rite of episcopal consecration is capable of doubt.