Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: sspxbvm on April 21, 2013, 11:24:27 AM
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http://ourladysresistance.org/intellectual-mush.html
FROM THE SITE:
CHAPTER 2
Let's be clear. We hold nothing against Father Themann. He appears to have been taught everything we heard on that Tuesday evening. We don't believe he sits at the priest table every day and plots on how to deceive the people. However, since he has subscribed to the untruths he has been taught and holds these untruths as being absolutely true we see why he was the candidate in the auditorium that evening. He conveys a quiet simplicity and at first glance he appears to have a firm grasp on the reality of the situation.
The crowd that night was at least 700 but probably more around 900 people. There were a great many people who up till then hadn't ever shown interest in the Catholic Resistance movement in such a public setting. Never have they come to our Masses & conferences. Never have they made the effort to examine the other side of the issue (the reason we started this website...click here) Hence, one may draw the conclusion that the "Smith" family only came because they knew their neighbor was going and didn't want to be left out in the cold. Either that or it was just "the thing to do" that evening and they always have to attend "the thing to do." This is our conclusion for the bulk of the people. There certainly were some honest souls looking for answers but they appeared to be few and far between.
We could not help but remember the scene in "The Passion of the Christ" in which Our Lord is being questioned by the Sanhedrin. He had very, very few devoted followers in that crowd. Most of the Sanhedrin came to condemn Christ. It seems many of the ordinary people came out of an excessive desire for sensationalism. Either way there was Our Lady, Saint John & Saint Mary Magdalene that dared to come as close as God willed them to come. Perhaps several of the apostles were also nearby--staying far enough away!
Our conference that Tuesday can be compared to this scene of Christ's life in a smaller caliber. Since the SSPX was very recently the last bastion of the Catholic Faith (and still has some Catholicism left in it) it is the Catholic Faith itself on trial.The questioning and false testimony of the Sanhedrin would be the priests speaking untruths about the holy founder, Archbishop Lefebvre who preserved the Faith when no other would. The deceptive rhetoric can be liken to the deception, untruths and lies told about our Lord on holy Thursday night. The aggressive tone of some people in Father Themann's crowd--some who were downright angry at the Catholic Resistance--relates very well with those who buffeted and spit at Our Lord. Yes, the Catholic Faith was on trial on the evening of April 16 in the auditorium at Saint Mary's Academy & College.
We now pick up our notes and proceed where we left off. Remember, we have commentary coming soon from one more worthy than us. We simply divulge what occurred that evening.
Father Themann asked if accepting a canonical structure is a question of principle or of prudence. Answering himself by saying it "would certainly seem a question of prudence." He reminded people that the SSPX had a canonical structure when it was first founded but was unjustly taken away (Editor's note: unjustly taken away and invalid). He says the society of Saint Pius X recognizes the authority of the (Editor's addition: apostate) people who would be granting the structure in Rome. He then turned the tables on the Sedevacantists again by a casual put down. He says to accept the structure is a question of prudence.
In July of 1987 the Archbishop communicated the famous words "Eminence, even if you give us everything--a bishop, some autonomy from the bishops, the 1962 liturgy, allow us to continue our seminaries--we cannot work together because we are going in different directions. You are working to dechristianize society and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them." ..... Let's look at how that is belittled by the Neo-SSPX.....
Now let's remember Father Themann has been taught these things. He didn't stand there and LIE to the people. He simply at this point started conveying UNTRUTHS. If he WAS deliberately lying to the people that indeed would be hard to judge but looking at his exemplary upbringing and Catholic formation we must give him the benefit. He took those above mentioned words of the Archbishop and said (we paraphrase): Does that mean that the structure is a question of principle? (Theological differences are a question of principle.) It might seem so but it CERTAINLY is not. The proof he gave is that after making that statement the Archbishop spent the next several months negotiating for a canonical structure with Cardinal Ratzinger. "That's a fact." He continued with different quotes from the Archbishop to "prove" his points.
He said the second point of people's confusion, doubt and worry comes from a lack of detailed knowledge of the events that have happened. He proceeded to give dates from the pilgrimage to Rome in 2000 to the events in 2012. And explained them all in the way he has learned them.... many times sounding like Father Rostand. He admitted the concessions by (Editor's note: apostate) Rome such as the Moto Propio and the lifting of the excommunications were not perfect but he said it is at least "something."
After trying to convince the people that the May 5, 1988 protcol signed and then tore up by Archbishop Lefebvre was actually a docuмent the Archbishop liked very much he then proceeded to compare it to Bishop Fellay's preamble and tried his best to convince the people there should be nobody upset about what Bishop Fellay was willing to sign since it is almost the same docuмent as the Archbishop signed. He said the Archbishop only tore it up the next day because he wanted a bishop and wanted to test the fidelity of Rome by asking them for one. Interesting to note: He gave this explanation after admitting the Archbishop DID say he had gone too far in signing the protocol.
At this point we would like to take a step back to our quote: " This eventually led up to comments on how Bishop Fellay's decision to join (editor note:apostate) Rome without Rome converting is a decision of prudence. He said decisions based on prudence can change given the circuмstances and hence (since things are better in Rome & the Church than in the Archbishop's time) it is okay for Bishop Fellay to seek union with Rome."--If the Neo-SSPX is wanting to make union with apostate Rome which has "enthroned" to Satan ( Satan in the Vatican) a matter of mere prudence they need to go and do what they want to do and leave the Resistance Catholics alone. We have no desire to be in the ranks of Judas and the like.
Everything was very well organized. He even joked in a very timely fashion. Our Lord did say the end days would "deceive even the elect, if that were possible." The clever fashion of Menzigen in knowing who to use and what to get them to say fulfills these words of Our Lord. We only hope He had us in mind when He said them and He will always preserve us.
We have covered more than half our notes and are now going to turn it over to a good soul who is willing to do the research to expose the truth in an accurate rebuttal.
Just some closing thoughts. CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE. You may not even be able to trust some of THEM because Father so and so is sending in a "spy" for one reason or other. Reasons that we shouldn't worry about since they cannot spiritually hurt us unless we hand our intellects and wills to them. In Saint Mary's they are beginning to show clear signs of animosity. Dare we say even some hatred? Our next Mass & conference will likely have some rascals show up looking to cause a disturbance. We must stand by each other and be ready to stand up for the Catholic Faith in the way and with the gifts which God in His Wisdom gives to us. There will be Liberals & Lunatics coming at us in an increasing measure. In many ways this is instigated by the Neo-SSPX who manipulates the minds of those who do no research for themselves but ask for Father so and so to direct their minds. An example of this would be at the conference when a certain man stood up and asked Father "How do I find these Resistance people?" ---He SOUNDED angry--- Well, Mr. So and So, why don't you research that for yourself? The Catholic Resistance doesn't hide. The Masses and conferences are promoted on internet sites and you could certainly do some asking around for yourself.
People don't know how to think anymore. Their minds are mush. The auditorium at Saint Mary's Academy and College was like a HUGE blender and the setting was on it's highest. It is logical to conclude that God would preserve the minds of those who came with honest inquiry and those truly devoted to the Rosary & His Mother. What can we say for the rest of them?
Let's pray the Catholic Resistance continues to hold strong for all the world to see. Yes, some people are "hiding" behind screen names for one reason or another We cannot judge them. The Devil is accusing us of hiding and yet it is the accusers who make no effort to look at the other side of the issue and make no effort to attend our conferences. This is true cowardice. If they discover there is a problem then they will be obliged to do something. Better to remain ignorant and CEMENT that ignorance by attending one sided conferences. God have mercy on them!
For those sent by their teachers because it was an assignment... Will they stand for THE TRUTH in class? Let's hope somebody will!! How many people have said they wouldn't have called for the crucifixion of Jesus and yet they stand with that crowd today?
--THE END
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Father Themann is hand-picked for this kind of job, because he is so likable.
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
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SSPXBVM wrote:
"This eventually led up to comments on how Bishop Fellay's decision to join (editor note: apostate) Rome without Rome converting is a decision of prudence. He said decisions based on prudence can change given the circuмstances and hence (since things are better in Rome & the Church than in the Archbishop's time) it is okay for Bishop Fellay to seek union with Rome."
Comments:
1) If true and accurate, it would seem Fr. Themann is in danger of expulsion for disobedience to the Superior General, who just the previous day in "Letter to Friends and Benefactors #80" wrote that nothing had changed in Rome in the last 50 years!
2) Of course, I say this tongue in cheek, for the best soldiers remaining in the SSPX from Menzingen's perspective, are those who have mastered CRIMESTOP (i.e., The ability described in 1984 to deliberately train oneself to embrace contradiction without any internal cognitive dissonance), and are able to boldly proclaim the opposite of that which they proclaimed the day prior.
3) "We have always been at war with Eurasia!" (1984)
4) And the reality is that Menzingen changes its position so often, that the troops in the field are not up to speed on the latest spin (as was obviously the case with Fr. Themann).
5) They backed Bishop Fellay when he said (Cor Unum, March 2012) the situation was different in Rome, and they will back him again when they learn he has contradicted himself in Letter #80 saying there has been no change.
6) They backed him in Letter #63, when he explained to Campos why a deal with Rome was reckless to the faith, and they backed him when he contradicted that position.
7) They backed him in the 2006 GC declaration that there be no practical accord without first resolving the doctrinal issues; they backed him in 2012 when the GC contradicted that declaration.
8) I make no statement regarding the moral caliber of priests/bishops who so dexterously embrace contradictory positions, except to observe that, once the spirit has been broken with the first CRIMESTOP, it must be much easier each subsequent time.
9) Any who have followed the demise of Bishop Fernando Rifan (Campos) perceive where this path ends.
10) Yes, we are hated for these inconvenient reminders; we are impediments to the spiritual and psychological comfort of those who sold out, because our mere presence is a reminder that resistance was possible for those who loved Christ enough to endure the things they now heap upon us.
11) "Am I then become thine enemy, because I tell thee the truth?" (Gal 4:16)
12) "Jesus answered him: If I have spoken evil, give testimony of the evil; but if well, why strikest thou me?" (Jn 18:23)
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
Point being if they don't take their Faith serious enough they are not going to respond to God's grace and if they don't respond to God's graces it is only a matter of time before they turn on us.
During the days of anti-Christ they will have to have the mark of the beast to buy or sell. We are (according to the wisdom of Bishop Williamson) in the "dress rehearsal" for that time. The line will be even more clearly drawn in that time, apparently. Right now the line is not so clear but if you want friends who are completely loyal to the cause of preserving the Catholic Faith you will find them with the Catholic Resistance.
"Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. " John 15, 13--- We'll see if the laity of the Neo-SSPX is willing to do this for us.
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
Point being if they don't take their Faith serious enough they are not going to respond to God's grace and if they don't respond to God's graces it is only a matter of time before they turn on us.
During the days of anti-Christ they will have to have the mark of the beast to buy or sell. We are (according to the wisdom of Bishop Williamson) in the "dress rehearsal" for that time. The line will be even more clearly drawn in that time, apparently. Right now the line is not so clear but if you want friends who are completely loyal to the cause of preserving the Catholic Faith you will find them with the Catholic Resistance.
"Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends. " John 15, 13--- We'll see if the laity of the Neo-SSPX is willing to do this for us.
"A friend if he continue steadfast, shall be to thee as thyself, and shall act with confidence among them of thy household. ] If he humble himself before thee, and hide himself from thy face, thou shalt have unanimous friendship for good. Separate thyself from thy enemies, and take heed of thy friends. A faithful friend is a strong defence: and he that hath found him, hath found a treasure. Nothing can be compared to a faithful friend, and no weight of gold and silver is able to countervail the goodness of his fidelity.
A faithful friend is the medicine of life and immortality: and they that fear the Lord, shall find him. He that feareth God, shall likewise have good friendship: because according to him shall his friend be" Ecclesiasticus 6, 11-17
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
Point being if they don't take their Faith serious enough they are not going to respond to God's grace and if they don't respond to God's graces it is only a matter of time before they turn on us.
During the days of anti-Christ they will have to have the mark of the beast to buy or sell. We are (according to the wisdom of Bishop Williamson) in the "dress rehearsal" for that time. The line will be even more clearly drawn in that time, apparently. Right now the line is not so clear but if you want friends who are completely loyal to the cause of preserving the Catholic Faith you will find them with the Catholic Resistance.
You mean a matter of time before they turn on the faith. The crimes of the Conciliarists and the accordistas are crimes against the faith first, against the body of believers second.
That was what I was getting at. The Catholic faith can be found in places that aren't part of the Resistance proper (defined, at least loosely in my mind, as the religious who have been ejected or removed themselves from the governing body of the neo-SSPX, whether they were actual members or associates). I listed some of these places in my prior post.
It seems we agree-- I don't mean to come across as contrarian, just semantic. :)
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
Point being if they don't take their Faith serious enough they are not going to respond to God's grace and if they don't respond to God's graces it is only a matter of time before they turn on us.
During the days of anti-Christ they will have to have the mark of the beast to buy or sell. We are (according to the wisdom of Bishop Williamson) in the "dress rehearsal" for that time. The line will be even more clearly drawn in that time, apparently. Right now the line is not so clear but if you want friends who are completely loyal to the cause of preserving the Catholic Faith you will find them with the Catholic Resistance.
You mean a matter of time before they turn on the faith. The crimes of the Conciliarists and the accordistas are crimes against the faith first, against the body of believers second.
That was what I was getting at. The Catholic faith can be found in places that aren't part of the Resistance proper (defined, at least loosely in my mind, as the religious who have been ejected or removed themselves from the governing body of the neo-SSPX, whether they were actual members or associates). I listed some of these places in my prior post.
It seems we agree-- I don't mean to come across as contrarian, just semantic. :)
Turn on us because we have the Faith, that's a given. I was under the impression you were talking about "friends" in the Neo-SSPX. Hence the quotes. It's at least good reading.
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Thank you. How many 'parts' can we expect to this?
On this note:
CATHOLIC RESISTANCE YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS OUTSIDE OF OTHER CATHOLIC RESISTANCE PEOPLE.
I'm not quite sure how to read this. I think the author (considering context) means to say that those chapel goers who do not attend the Resistance masses and conferences (and, possibly even some who do) are not to be trusted. Let's not make the same mistake the neo-SSPX has made. There are faithful Catholics outside of the Resistance. Even trustworthy ones. There are users on here that attend other traditional groups (sedevacantist, SSPV, independent, etc.) who are good Catholics. They may not be 'part' of the Resistance inasmuch as they do not attend the masses or conferences, but they support the principle of preserving the Catholic faith against the Conciliar python.
And, like I said, I'm sure that the above quoting is just a poor choice of words.
I don't expect there will be any more amateur reporting on the conference. This is because one of the SSPX priests helping us will be jumping into it ASAP....very possibly the first part of the week.
The amateur commentary will very happily step aside for the pros!!
Back to our other links like the Virgin Mary & Holy Face Devotion pages. That's our specialty.
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Right. There's a difference between saying that you don't have friends in the neo-SSPX (that is, you don't have friends who are pro-deal) and you don't have friends OUTSIDE of the Resistance. I know great Catholics who attend traditional chapels that are not run by Menzingen or the Resistance. I think most of us do.
And yes, it's good reading. Did you see my earlier question? How many parts to this St Mary's saga can we anticipate? Will the rebuttal that the author alluded to be part three? Or something else entirely?
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Right. There's a difference between saying that you don't have friends in the neo-SSPX (that is, you don't have friends who are pro-deal) and you don't have friends OUTSIDE of the Resistance. I know great Catholics who attend traditional chapels that are not run by Menzingen or the Resistance. I think most of us do.
And yes, it's good reading. Did you see my earlier question? How many parts to this St Mary's saga can we anticipate? Will the rebuttal that the author alluded to be part three? Or something else entirely?
Very true.
A whole new perspective.