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Author Topic: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?  (Read 1801 times)

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Offline PAT317

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Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2020, 05:30:21 PM »
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  • I actually believe that the outrageous heresies and irreverence of one Jorge Bergoglio have been instrumental in waking up some of those in the Conciliar Church ... whereas JP2 and B16 lulled them to sleep.

    Once your mind breaks free from the Conciliar paradigm and you see the first crack, you begin digging deeper.  It was like my experience with 9/11.  It woke me up to the broader world of government control and conspiracy.

    When these men truly understand the heresies of Begoglio, they'll look back and find that they were already there in B16 and JP2.
    Exactly.  Well said.  We should be pleased to see some of them coming around.  Vigano has already spoken critically of VII.

    "When these men truly understand the heresies of Begoglio, they'll look back and find that they were already there in B16 and JP2."
    Taylor Marshall did this to some extent.  In a video with Patrick Coffin & Tim G., they were talking about red-pilling on Francis, and at one point Marshall says something like, "And do you find that it's retroactive?", saying how he's started to find & realize there were problems with those previous two.  

    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #16 on: May 08, 2020, 06:01:07 PM »
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  • The controlled opposition of A. Schneider got fortification. Don't trust them modernist lying heretics.

    Müller wrote blasphemies about the resurrection and other topics. Don't fall for these destroyers of the faith. They didn't say anything when PVI, JPII, BXVI, or FI called for world authority and government. 


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #17 on: May 08, 2020, 06:15:15 PM »
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  • I actually believe that the outrageous heresies and irreverence of one Jorge Bergoglio have been instrumental in waking up some of those in the Conciliar Church ... whereas JP2 and B16 lulled them to sleep.


    How is this appeal and petition evidence of this? This appeal is for Catholics and "all people of goodwill".  This appeal discusses the unalienable rights of (all) citizens, including freedom of worship.  How is this not another form of ecuмenism? This just sounds like another Vatican II docuмent that mixes in a drop of Catholicism to make it sound legit.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #18 on: May 08, 2020, 06:28:12 PM »
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  • How is this appeal and petition evidence of this? This appeal is for Catholics and "all people of goodwill".  This appeal discusses the unalienable rights of (all) citizens, including freedom of worship.  How is this not another form of ecuмenism? This just sounds like another Vatican II docuмent that mixes in a drop of Catholicism to make it sound legit.  

    It's because I noticed that many of the prelates who signed it have also been the ones vocal in criticizing Bergoglio.  Once they start seeing the light, they start being more and more Catholic about other issues as well.  Eventually, by God's grace, it could lead them back to the source of all this error ... Vatican II.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #19 on: May 08, 2020, 10:22:22 PM »
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  • Hmmm.  This is coming from Vatican II pastors.  Is this a new ecuмencial movement?
    Presumably, any non sede is going to see "Vatican II pastors" as still being in a different category from those who don't even profess to be Catholic.  


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #20 on: May 09, 2020, 08:59:27 AM »
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  • Statement by Archbishop Viganò on Cardinal Sarah's retraction
    https://leblogdejeannesmits.blogspot.com/2020/05/communique-de-mgr-vigano-sur-la.html

    After the two tweets in which Cardinal Sarah distanced himself late last night from the Appeal for the Church and for the World, Bishop Carlo Maria Viganò explained the facts. Here they are.



    RELEASE
    8 May 2020

    Subject: Withdrawal of the adhesion of H.E. Robert, Cardinal Sarah to the "Appeal for the Church and the World" launched yesterday, 7 May.

    At this time of very serious crisis that the Church and the world are going through, I wish to maintain an attitude of profound charity towards my brother in Christ, Cardinal Robert Sarah, to whom I immediately forgave the grave wrong he inflicted on the truth and on my person. True charity, however, cannot ignore the truth, for it is in truth that it has its foundation. It is therefore my duty, including fraternal correction, to bring to light the sequence of events as they occurred, with regard to Cardinal Sarah's signing of the Appeal.

    Monday, 4 May, 4 p.m.
    I had a telephone conversation with His Eminence, Cardinal Sarah. The call was recorded and lasted 6 minutes and 25 seconds.

    Regarding the text of the call, the Cardinal said: "It seems to me that this is a very serious matter. I think that this Appeal can do a lot of good, because it will make people think and take a position: I agree that it should be published as soon as possible."

    I then asked His Eminence if he intended to put his signature. The Cardinal replied: "Yes, I agree to put my name, because it is a struggle that we must wage together, not only for the Catholic Church but for all humanity."

    Thursday, May 7th
    At 8:43 a.m., I telephoned His Eminence to ask him if he had the telephone number of Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Mueller, which he then kindly communicated to me by SMS. During this phone call, which lasted 4 minutes, Cardinal Sarah made no mention of his wish to withdraw his signature.

    At 3 p.m. I started to send the Appeal to news agencies, blogs and various newspapers: the text of the Appeal with the list of signatories, including Cardinal Sarah's signature.

    At 5:48 p.m. I received a text message from the Cardinal, which I read only an hour and a half later. At the time this message was sent, I was totally absorbed in the operations of spreading the Appeal, I did not notice the arrival of the message from His Eminence, and therefore could not immediately take note of its contents.

    At 7:37 p.m., the Cardinal phoned me to ask me if I had seen his message. I answered that I had not.

    Here is the text of the message sent to me by the Cardinal:
    "Dear Excellency, as I'm still on duty at the Roman Curia, a friend of mine advised me not to sign the call. Perhaps it would be better to withdraw my name this time. I am very sorry for this. You know of my friendship and closeness to you. Thank you for your understanding. Robert Card. Sarah."

    The Cardinal informed me during his telephone call that he intended to remove his name from the list of signatories. Confused and sorry, I pointed out to His Eminence that the Appeal and the signatures had already been "universally" distributed for more than four hours. The conversation ended without His Eminence asking or suggesting a solution.

    We could, for example, have agreed on a "common communiqué" in which the Cardinal's decision to withdraw his membership would be made public. None of that was done. We left in a cordial manner, expressing feelings of esteem and mutual support. Faced with this situation, to which neither he nor I were able to find a solution, I took the liberty of encouraging His Eminence, pointing out to him how much his adherence to the Appeal would be a comfort and encouragement for a very large number of the faithful.

    With surprise and deep disappointment, I then learned that His Eminence had used his Twitter account, without warning me, with statements seriously prejudicial to the truth and to my person. I am deeply sorry that this affair, attributable to human weakness, and for which I bear no resentment towards the person who provoked it, has diverted our attention from what must be of grave concern to us at this dramatic moment.

    I confirm that the name of His Eminence Cardinal Robert Sarah was quickly removed from the official site of the Appeal, as can be seen at veritasliberabitvos.info.

    + Carlo Maria Viganò, Archbishop, Apostolic Nuncio
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #21 on: May 09, 2020, 09:59:29 AM »
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  • So Sarah removed his name because he was "still on duty at the Curia" ... i.e. due to political pressure from the heretics in Rome?

    Offline PAT317

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #22 on: May 09, 2020, 11:58:15 AM »
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  • So Sarah removed his name because he was "still on duty at the Curia" ... i.e. due to political pressure from the heretics in Rome?
    That's how I read it.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #23 on: May 09, 2020, 12:08:52 PM »
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  • Monday, 4 May, 4 p.m.
    I had a telephone conversation with His Eminence, Cardinal Sarah. The call was recorded and lasted 6 minutes and 25 seconds.

    Does anyone else find it strange that Vigano would record the phone call with Sarah?

    Is he a bit paranoid that people are out to get him?

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Conciliarists Passing SSPX on the Right?
    « Reply #24 on: May 09, 2020, 12:12:34 PM »
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  • Does anyone else find it strange that Vigano would record the phone call with Sarah?

    Is he a bit paranoid that people are out to get him?

    I would think that people are certainly out to get him. Probably a good idea that he records phone calls.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29