Author Topic: CONCILIAR POPES V  (Read 2213 times)

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Offline Adolphus

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CONCILIAR POPES V
« on: July 18, 2015, 12:31:58 AM »
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  • CONCILIAR POPES – V

    July 18, 2015
    Number CDXVIII (418)

     
    God will at last rescue his Church, of course,
    But Catholics must cry out, till they are hoarse.

    Last week’s “Comments” went so far as to suggest that to get a handle on the liberal mentality is a good way to keep the Faith today. Seeing how liberalism dissolves the Truth, one understands how it is undermining the Faith and destroying the Church. At the same time seeing how it corrupts minds, one understands how today’s churchmen are “diabolically disoriented” without necessarily being fully aware of how they are destroying the Church. Thus one need be neither liberal nor sedevacantist. So let us look at another classic text of Archbishop Lefebvre where he examines “The Catholic Liberal Mentality” in Chapter XVI of They Have Uncrowned Him:—

    “A sickness of the mind. ‘Rather than a confusion of mind, liberal Catholicism is a sickness of the mind’ (Fr. A. Roussel in his book Liberalism and Catholicism): the mind is unable simply to rest in the truth. It can venture no statement without thinking immediately of the counter-statement, which it feels equally obliged to make. Pope Paul VI was a classic example of such a split mind, of a two-faced being – it could even be read physically on his features – perpetually tossed between two contradictory positions and driven by a balancing movement, swinging regularly between Tradition and novelty – would some people call it intellectual schizophrenia?

    “I think that Fr Clérissac saw deepest into the nature of this sickness. It is ‘a lack of integrity of the mind’ ( Mystery of the Church, Chapter VII). It is a mind ‘lacking trust in the truth . . . . When liberalism prevails, this lack of integrity in the mind shows psychologically in two clear characteristics: liberals are malleable and anxious: malleable, because they too easily take on the state of mind of those around them; anxious, because for fear of clashing with different states of mind they are continually concerned to justify themselves; they seem to suffer themselves from the doubts they are fighting against; they do not have enough confidence in the truth; they are too concerned to be justifying their position, demonstrating or adapting or even apologizing.’

    “Too concerned to be in harmony with the world, to be apologizing! That is so well said: they want to apologize for the whole past of the Church, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and so on. When it comes to justifying and demonstrating, they go about it very timidly, especially when the rights of Jesus Christ are involved, but when it comes to adapting to the world, they go at it, that is their basic principle. They start out from what they consider to be a practical principle, for them an undeniable fact, namely that the Church cannot be understood in the actual surroundings where it has to fulfil its divine mission without its getting in harmony with them.”

    Since the time of Fr Clérissac and of Archbishop Lefebvre, the dissolution of minds and hearts by liberalism has only made great advances. In the 21st century, there are even fewer traces left of yesteryear’s framework of objective truth and objective morality than there were in the 20th century. This being so, for the Church to adapt to its surroundings becomes more and more deadly for Catholic Faith and morals, which are nothing if not objective. How we have had to suffer from a mind continually alternating statements with counter-statements, continually anxious to win over both of two parties completely opposed to one another, to reconcile irreconcilables, lacking not only confidence in the truth but even, as it seems, any knowledge of the truth, were it not that this mind can do such a good imitation of the truth. Such a mind used to be said to belong to a “liar.” Today?

    We can only cry out, like the Psalmist: Lord, your own Catholics have become a mockery to non-Catholics. For your own honour and glory, hasten to our rescue!

    Kyrie eleison.

    Offline JPaul

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    CONCILIAR POPES V
    « Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 10:37:12 PM »
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  • Quote
    At the same time seeing how it corrupts minds, one understands how today’s churchmen are “diabolically disoriented” without necessarily being fully aware of how they are destroying the Church.


     :facepalm:.........................Invincible Ignorance V



    Offline wallflower

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    « Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 07:14:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote
    At the same time seeing how it corrupts minds, one understands how today’s churchmen are “diabolically disoriented” without necessarily being fully aware of how they are destroying the Church.


     :facepalm:.........................Invincible Ignorance V



    Is that how you read that? I read "not fully aware" as being partly aware. We puny little humans are never *fully* aware of the big picture, only our small parts. So they are aware enough to be judged, just not fully aware since the rot of the mind prohibits clarity. Like a person who is drunk may not be fully aware of what they do while drunk but they are still culpable for getting drunk to start with.


    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 09:40:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote
    At the same time seeing how it corrupts minds, one understands how today’s churchmen are “diabolically disoriented” without necessarily being fully aware of how they are destroying the Church.


     :facepalm:.........................Invincible Ignorance V



    Is that how you read that? I read "not fully aware" as being partly aware. We puny little humans are never *fully* aware of the big picture, only our small parts. So they are aware enough to be judged, just not fully aware since the rot of the mind prohibits clarity. Like a person who is drunk may not be fully aware of what they do while drunk but they are still culpable for getting drunk to start with.


    I am sure that was the case with Martin Luther, and most of the Arian Bishops as well, that did not change the fact that they were heretics and thus, enemies of the Church, and of Christ.

    Yes, culpable for the initial sin of drunkeness, and responsible for all that follows. They were aware when they began, and it matters not, what they were aware of after that.

    These men act in a very deliberate way against the Catholic religion, they have gone far beyond being just disoriented,  and they now act as diabolical agents of destruction.

    Offline magdalena

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    « Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 07:27:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: wallflower
    Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote
    At the same time seeing how it corrupts minds, one understands how today’s churchmen are “diabolically disoriented” without necessarily being fully aware of how they are destroying the Church.


     :facepalm:.........................Invincible Ignorance V



    Is that how you read that? I read "not fully aware" as being partly aware. We puny little humans are never *fully* aware of the big picture, only our small parts. So they are aware enough to be judged, just not fully aware since the rot of the mind prohibits clarity. Like a person who is drunk may not be fully aware of what they do while drunk but they are still culpable for getting drunk to start with.


    I am sure that was the case with Martin Luther, and most of the Arian Bishops as well, that did not change the fact that they were heretics and thus, enemies of the Church, and of Christ.

    Yes, culpable for the initial sin of drunkeness, and responsible for all that follows. They were aware when they began, and it matters not, what they were aware of after that.

    These men act in a very deliberate way against the Catholic religion, they have gone far beyond being just disoriented,  and they now act as diabolical agents of destruction.


    Well stated.   :pray:
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42


    Offline Wessex

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    « Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 06:11:02 AM »
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  • Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking.  For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution.  For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

    Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........  

    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 09:20:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking.  For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution.  For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

    Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........  


    Good clear comments Wessex. Early on the idea that this was just an incursion by the Church's enemies that would be repelled, returning the Church to sanity and orthodoxy. This is where and why, the R&R strategy came in to being.
    The Archbishop thought to outlast the revolutionaries, but after a decade or two, this position was completely overtaken by the constant gains and consolidation of the revolution.
    It is quite strange that more Traditionals have not seen the inefectiveness and irrelevancy of clinging to this illogical position. Perhaps they suffer from a widespread invincible naivete.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 09:30:54 AM »
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  • I'm not particularly interested in putting the V2 Popes on the psychiatric couch.  What's at issue is whether the MAGISTERIUM can fail to the extent that R&R says it has failed.  I could hardly care less about the mental state one G.B. Montini.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    « Reply #8 on: July 20, 2015, 10:27:39 AM »
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  • Wessex:
    Quote
    Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........


    Well, I have no doubt who the "true Catholics" are, and that Wessex numbers himself among them.  But who is this "they?"  Who are "those who should know better" and do know better?  I'm curious about this mysterious "they" from whom we get all those "messy explanations."  I could readily understand if it was a less mysterious 'he' to whom, I think, Wessex may be referring.

    Remember that there are those, portrayed in John 16:2  who shall put you out of the synagogues, and will even kill you, thinking that they do God a favor.

    Offline Wessex

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    « Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 06:11:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: Wessex
    Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking.  For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution.  For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

    Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........  


    Good clear comments Wessex. Early on the idea that this was just an incursion by the Church's enemies that would be repelled, returning the Church to sanity and orthodoxy. This is where and why, the R&R strategy came in to being.
    The Archbishop thought to outlast the revolutionaries, but after a decade or two, this position was completely overtaken by the constant gains and consolidation of the revolution.
    It is quite strange that more Traditionals have not seen the inefectiveness and irrelevancy of clinging to this illogical position. Perhaps they suffer from a widespread invincible naivete.



    The more liberal Rome becomes, the more some trads have to exonerate her. They are tied to her decline and are afraid to let go. Like remaining on the Titanic just in case the ship rights herself.

    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 09:31:26 PM »
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  • Wessex,
    Quote
    The more liberal Rome becomes, the more some trads have to exonerate her. They are tied to her decline and are afraid to let go. Like remaining on the Titanic just in case the ship rights herself.


    This is evidenced by many posts, this series of EC, and the protests of Menzingen against the sedevacantists. The intensity of the apologetic has increased, as the apostasy has manifested itself more directly.


    Offline AJNC

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    « Reply #11 on: July 22, 2015, 01:17:15 AM »
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  • 1 Timothy 2:4
    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    Remarkable there is this wholesale corruption of the bishops by liberalism. Is this not apostasy? What value are apostates to the Church?
    All these bishops were given the assistance of the Holy Spirit at Confirmation, Priestly Ordination and Episcopal Consecration (I think BpW believes these to be valid).


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 05:22:52 AM »
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  • .

    There is only one great heresy.

    THERE IS NO TRUTH





    But that's not all.

    EVEN IF THERE WERE TRUTH - IT COULD NOT BE KNOWN





    And finally,

    EVEN IF THE TRUTH COULD BE KNOWN, IT COULD NOT BE COMMUNICATED


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #13 on: August 24, 2015, 09:41:10 AM »
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  • At the false council,

    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    There is only one great heresy.

    THERE IS NO TRUTH


    ...that cannot be qualified to suit man...





    Quote
    But that's not all.

    EVEN IF THERE WERE TRUTH - IT COULD NOT BE KNOWN


    ...until the Holy Spirit revealed it at the Second Pentecost of the New Advent.....





    Quote
    And finally,

    EVEN IF THE TRUTH COULD BE KNOWN, IT COULD NOT BE COMMUNICATED

    [/CENTER]
    .


    ...until the sacred council told us that we are approaching the Truth.......so it appears that we will find out for ourselves....................



    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #14 on: August 24, 2015, 09:43:21 AM »
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  • This sums up this series of EC and bears repeating,
    Quote
    Wessex,
    Quote:
    The more liberal Rome becomes, the more some trads have to exonerate her. They are tied to her decline and are afraid to let go. Like remaining on the Titanic just in case the ship rights herself.

     

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