Author Topic: CONCILIAR POPES V (Read 4125 times)

Wessex · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2015, 06:11:02 AM »

Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking. For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution. For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........

JPaul · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2015, 09:20:40 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking. For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution. For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........

Good clear comments Wessex. Early on the idea that this was just an incursion by the Church's enemies that would be repelled, returning the Church to sanity and orthodoxy. This is where and why, the R&R strategy came in to being.
The Archbishop thought to outlast the revolutionaries, but after a decade or two, this position was completely overtaken by the constant gains and consolidation of the revolution.
It is quite strange that more Traditionals have not seen the inefectiveness and irrelevancy of clinging to this illogical position. Perhaps they suffer from a widespread invincible naivete.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2015, 09:30:54 AM »

I'm not particularly interested in putting the V2 Popes on the psychiatric couch. What's at issue is whether the MAGISTERIUM can fail to the extent that R&R says it has failed. I could hardly care less about the mental state one G.B. Montini.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2015, 10:27:39 AM »

Wessex:

Quote

Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........

Well, I have no doubt who the "true Catholics" are, and that Wessex numbers himself among them. But who is this "they?" Who are "those who should know better" and do know better? I'm curious about this mysterious "they" from whom we get all those "messy explanations." I could readily understand if it was a less mysterious 'he' to whom, I think, Wessex may be referring.

Remember that there are those, portrayed in John 16:2 who shall put you out of the ѕуηαgσgυєs, and will even kill you, thinking that they do God a favor.

Wessex · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2015, 06:11:31 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Wessex
Modern churchmen have free will and are using it. The early V2 reformers were anxious to throw off the yoke of the past (which they often admit was not that convincing) and to use some elements of Christianity to make a church more to their liking. For them the 1950s mentality had to come to an end and they opted for evolution. For their successors, the new church is their home and they identify with no other. Thus the revolution is complete. Do ancien regimes ever return or are certain features of them at best incorporated into the new reality to soften or give it some superficial but bogus feeling of continuity with the past? This is the direction so many trads are now pursuing.

Where true Catholics want and are entitled to clarity, we keep getting messy explanations and solutions from those who should know better. Well, they do know better but somehow still harbour a notion that V2 is an aberration rather than a root and branch revolution which has only just got started. They live in hope and play a waiting game ........

Good clear comments Wessex. Early on the idea that this was just an incursion by the Church's enemies that would be repelled, returning the Church to sanity and orthodoxy. This is where and why, the R&R strategy came in to being.
The Archbishop thought to outlast the revolutionaries, but after a decade or two, this position was completely overtaken by the constant gains and consolidation of the revolution.
It is quite strange that more Traditionals have not seen the inefectiveness and irrelevancy of clinging to this illogical position. Perhaps they suffer from a widespread invincible naivete.

The more liberal Rome becomes, the more some trads have to exonerate her. They are tied to her decline and are afraid to let go. Like remaining on the Titanic just in case the ship rights herself.