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Author Topic: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith  (Read 9165 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
« Reply #90 on: September 13, 2019, 02:14:42 AM »
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  • Last Trad,

    Honestly, no offense but I wasn’t asking for a laundry list of what someone thinks should be done.  What I was asking for were anecdotal stories...stories...of challenges that a Traditional Catholic faced while successfully raising their children and how they overcame those challenges.
    Anecdotal stories are millions, what I gave is the bottom line and some examples. The bottom line is that the scarcely anyone is really LIVING the Faith and that is why they fail. I gave some typical “innocent” (as they rationalize them) examples of how they stretch their own idea of what it is to live the faith, focusing on the girls. You never asked for any details or anecdotal stories, you never mentioned any "excuses". 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #91 on: September 13, 2019, 02:20:59 AM »
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  • There's nothing honest about your position, if you were honest, you would have come forward and defended your position that you disagree with some or all of my recommendations, instead of hiding behind empty complaints. Be a man and admit that:

    That you let your wife dress in tight clothes and wear high heels and such, to attract men or to follow the fashions of the young
    You go to mass "for the sake of the children" or your parents
    You use birth control (NFP)

    You would allow your daughters to dress in tight clothes, shorts, jeans, high heels, one piece bathing suits, bikinis....
    You would let daughters to go out with boys unsupervised
    You would leave the religious education of your children to others
    You would send your daughters away to boarding school or college
    You would do any of the list above, "because Father said it was OK"

    Ekim,

    By your dark cloud hanging over you, drag attitude, and insulting responses towards anyone's advice on this thread, I have to assume that you are not really living the faith, that you are a rationalizer of the faith and the recommendations offered on this thread from everyone are a rebuke, a sting, to your lifestyle, and that is why you insult everyone at every turn.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #92 on: September 13, 2019, 02:56:26 AM »
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  • One more from a very good friend of mine.

    He was a Traditional Catholic (RIP).  He sent his kids to the local Novus Ordo Catholic School.  He taught them that when they go to NO Mass that they must kneel during the Consecration, avoid the “hand shake”, kneel for Communion and receiving Communion in the hand was a sacrilege.  They did exactly as he instructed.  In return the other kids made them feel uncomfortable.  He later found out that  the Priests and Nuns were telling them “Your dad means well but he’s just old fashioned and out of date”.  They even told them the Scapular was superstitious.  He didn’t learn this till they were grown and no longer following the faith.  He said the biggest mistake he made was sending his kids to a Catholic School.  He thought that in the 1970-80’s things were still reasonably safe.  Instead their faith was destroyed.
    Parents in the 1960's were caught by something out of nowhere, my parents were too. I can't blame them, it was out of nowhere. In the 1970's things were not as clear as today, but it was becoming obvious and by 1980 they should have realized that they were alone in their ideas. They should have realized what their children were up against. We trads are all alone, we are islands. We need to realize that it is very difficult for the children if they are sent to the world (a Novus Ordo school or public school or even an SSPX school) and we do not talk to them and explain EVERYTHING. We need to sit at the breakfast and dinner table and talk to the children (very few trad families eat together or talk), watch them how they interact with their friends, we need to be their parents but also their closest confidant. My children are me 50% and the wife I married 50%, they are a mix of my two greatest loves, me and my wife. They are mini me's. When I talk to them I see me as a child. Fascinating! It is easy to converse with them because I have been conversing with them all their lives. There is no question that they have that has not been answered and I encourage them to challenge my answers, so they truly understand. Had the parents in your story had good communication with their children, they would have known that  the priests and nuns were telling them; "your dad means well but he’s just old fashioned and out of date, that the Scapular was superstitions". Sure he was wrong in sending them to the Novus Ordo, but that was not the main problem. His main problem was that he did not have his ears to the ground.

    The home is a Castle, a fortification, some parents have a fort with one wall, some with two, some with three walls, some have a fort with four walls but they leave the gate open, and a scarce few have a fort with tall thick stone walls and keep guards at the gate and are continuously updating the defenses, continuously prepared for the war. The last castle is the castle of a Catholic who LIVES the faith, the others are rationalizers with the world.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #93 on: September 13, 2019, 05:00:35 AM »
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  • Last Trad,

    Good points, thank you.  We definitely believe our house is a “fortress” and do everything we can to keep it free from the world.  Family time, meals etc...are very important to us.

    I have four boys. Two enjoy (not sure that’s the right word) serving Mass, one is indifferent and the third clearly finds it bothersome.  He rolls his eyes when his name appears on the schedule.  I talk to him about it and he says “I’m too old for this (17)...to old to be a “little altar boy”, even though there are other boys older than him who still serve.  We talked.  He said he understands the importance of the Mass and what a great honor it is to serve Our Lord and be on the altar etc...but after ten years of Sunday’s and holydays, he’s just tired of it.

    I told him I understand and that he’s old enough to make his own choices.  I suggested he talk to the coordinator and let him know his thoughts.  If he no longer wishes to serve Mass then ask to be taken off the schedule.

    He never does and seems to go off to church begrudgingly.  It is a bad example for the little ones and not exactly the attitude one should have to serve the Holy Sacrifice.

    Not exactly sure what to do....  I want HIM to make the decision, resign and be great full for the years he was able to serve or serve whole heartedly and with enthusiasm.  Instead, it seems to be the same “I’m on the schedule AGAIN?” type of attitude.

    He is not on the schedule every Sunday, usually once or twice a month.

    Any thoughts....?

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #94 on: September 13, 2019, 07:53:56 AM »
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  • Not exactly sure what to do....  I want HIM to make the decision, resign and be great full for the years he was able to serve or serve whole heartedly and with enthusiasm.  Instead, it seems to be the same “I’m on the schedule AGAIN?” type of attitude. He is not on the schedule every Sunday, usually once or twice a month. Any thoughts....?
    My Catholic education consisted of being baptized as a baby, Sunday school for 1st communion for like 3 months of Saturdays, and same for Confirmation, after that I never went back to church till I was 40. In other words, zero education and I knew nothing. My Mother went to the Novus Ordo mass every Sunday, belonged to the Legion of Mary and did all kinds of things at the church, but she didn't live the faith. My Father just went with her. If I said we had a one wall castle I think I'd be exaggerating. My only younger sister was allowed to go out with anyone, luckily she looked like she was 12 years old till she turned like 21. Since she was 18, she was allowed to go to night clubs till 4am and such. They did send her to the Novus Ordo Catholic school, which looking back now, made things worse, for she learned a false Catholic religion. She thinks she knows the Catholic Faith, but she knows nothing. She has absolutely no fear of God (the ONLY thing I learned at Sunday school). She is the sweetest  person in the world, would not betray anyone or hurt a fly. She is smart, very sociable, and noble, but she is Catholic in name only. That is what the Novus Ordo and nominal Catholicism in the house did to her. Now, fortunately for her, she has my family, her nieces and nephews as a real life example. Who knows how she will end. We are all praying for her. A lot of digression in that story, but the bottom line is that the great sinner who learned nothing about the faith but fear of God is now the trad catholic father advising other people. While the girl that went to Catholic school is now as it appears, hopelessly lost.

    There's your anecdote, and below is another! It all has to do with your son, believe it or not.

    I was a baseball player through the Little, Pony, Senior leagues and High School. I could have played in college, but I realized I was not going further, so I went to school to learn business. My father was an even better baseball player than I  when he was young, he never once pushed me to play baseball. I do the same, however, with my children I also put things in front of them, I expose them to studies, sports, activities, arts, sciences, carpentry, plumbing, mechanics, engineering  etc., to everything I can think of, and I let them go according to their natural abilities and inclinations. Then I help those inclinations along, at least I do not hinder them (unless they are not good for the soul, like anything involving Hollywood) . My son on his own took a liking to serving mass when he was so little that he needed a bench to set up the altar. I drove him to church every weekday that he served and went to mass. In the case of your son, if he does not have the inclination, do not force it on him. Not serving mass is not on my list of weak fortifications. However, why he does not want to serve and what he does with his time now, can make my list. If your only complaint is that he does not want to serve anymore, then you are miles ahead of everyone else.

    Is he smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol, hanging out with unshaven friends, not working around the house...…. (all signs that something bad is going on). Like you said before, it is complicated, however, only complicated because I can't see your family over the internet, very easy for me if I was there like you are.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #95 on: September 13, 2019, 09:54:06 AM »
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  • In the case of your son, if he does not have the inclination, do not force it on him. Not serving mass is not on my list of weak fortifications. However, why he does not want to serve and what he does with his time now, can make my list. If your only complaint is that he does not want to serve anymore, then you are miles ahead of everyone else.
    Like I said, if I was there I could see the whole picture as you do. One experience I had was that priest was a short tempered grump. First of all, like all grumps, he didn't like himself, and of course didn't like anyone, specially children.  A bad example priest cam turn off even the most fervent child. One child complained to his parents of the ill treatment he was getting from the priests and the father didn't believe it, he told him to suck it up, to be a man. After a  few months the parents realized their son was not exaggerating.

    One flaw I see in parents that do not succeed is that they worship priests as if they were genius nobility. They blindly follow anything Father says, even into opening up the castle gates for all kinds of worldly actions which they would normally not have done, all because "Father said we could".  That's what happened after Vatican II. Today, annulments and NFP  are two BIG examples of this even in "trad" circles.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Troubled30

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #96 on: September 13, 2019, 03:48:47 PM »
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  • I dont have children and Im a woman. 

    I believe sending children to school (catholic NO or public) is exposing them to a lot of danger.

    Specially in teen years because of peer pressure. If other girls go out unsupervised with boys you daughter will want to do the same and she will fear to being seen as an alien or being bullied.

    Peer pressure, bad NO nuns and priests, watching TV,  can make a lot of damage.

    Staying 7 or more hours per day with people who arent christian at all when you are a teen is dangerous. They will spend more time with this unchristian people than in home with family.

    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #97 on: September 13, 2019, 06:51:31 PM »
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  • Last Trad,

    Thanks for your insightful reply.  He says he has nothing in common with the other alter boys who are about his age...and I agree.  I tell him you don’t have to be buddy-buddy with everyone but at least cordial.  Someday when you have a job, you certainly won’t befriend everyone you work with.  He also feels like he’s getting too old (?).  I don’t push him at all.  I honestly, am indifferent to him serving or not.  What I don’t like are the sighs, groans, and eye rolls when the monthly schedule comes out and the grumbling when we have to leave an hour earlier than the rest of the family so he can help set the altar.

    I could easily ask the coordinator not to schedule him, but I want him to make that decision...after all he’s 17.  Other than that he’s a pretty good kid (young man).  He is either doing homework, working on projects around the house, or playing soccer....no TV...no radio...etc. once in awhile (maybe 3 times a year) he may go to a birthday party of one of his soccer teammates, other than that he hangs out with his brothers at home.  He  has never even asked to go out on a Friday or Saturday night like most teenagers....he loves his Saturday soccer tournaments and gets to bed early on Friday to rest up for the early game and again Saturday because we are up for Mass at 6am on Sunday.

    So with that said, I wish he would lose the bad attitude about serving Mass.  If he’s really not interested than quit, but don’t be a grumpy bad example for others.  That certainly not the way someone should approach the Altar.  Granted, once he gets to church he’s fine...it’s all the himming and hawwwing along the way.

    Wish I had the wisdom of Solomon.


    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #98 on: September 13, 2019, 09:58:58 PM »
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  • I dont have children and Im a woman.

    I believe sending children to school (catholic NO or public) is exposing them to a lot of danger.

    Specially in teen years because of peer pressure. If other girls go out unsupervised with boys you daughter will want to do the same and she will fear to being seen as an alien or being bullied.

    Peer pressure, bad NO nuns and priests, watching TV,  can make a lot of damage.

    Staying 7 or more hours per day with people who arent christian at all when you are a teen is dangerous. They will spend more time with this unchristian people than in home with family.
    I was and still am a misfit freak.  I went to public school where non-virgins were mocked and rejected. The other girls of course went out with guys, unchaperoned, drank, did drugs, dressed immodestly. I had no desire for those things, so stood out, was mocked, ostracized.  I went to class, did my work, and stayed home on weekends, pursuing crafts, skills, hiking, camping, either with my parents or alone.  Bullying didn’t remain a problem.  If anyone crossed the line, I knew how to defend myself and took care of the matter before adult intervention was needed.  If any harm was done, it was not to losing a faith I’d never been taught, but it was towards making me a person who self isolates and doesn’t enjoy a lot of socializing.  

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #99 on: September 14, 2019, 08:27:35 PM »
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  • I was like you growing up, Seraphina


    But these young girls today are very worldly and spoiled rich or poor.  

    When I went on SSPX retreat there were young SSPx college girls who were just spoiled rich girls. Very worldly big show offs designer clothes, shoes driving around in new convertible. Then there were a couple of novus ordo young sisters.  Both humble. The younger sister was home-sick.  The other sister had a calling for a vocation. 



    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #100 on: September 15, 2019, 08:24:00 AM »
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  • Now there isn’t anything wrong For a family to be wealthy.  It is the excess.  Children having 30 Barbie dolls or 100 unicorn is leading children to a life of greed  Poor people even have problems with foolish spending and greed.    Neon pink bedrooms is overkill and the color for the liberal agendas of abortion and sodomy equality. Televisions or computers don’t belong in anyone’s bedroom.  Growing up many of us were blessed if we even had our own rooms. Too much clothes too which children outgrow quickly.  And stop spending foolishly.  Your child does need the designer flip flops that cost a couple hundred and are made in china and really cost a couple of dollars.  Also, diet. Microwave Mac and cheese and chicken fingers is not healthy.  If a child has health issues the whole family should have the same healthy food.  There should be no food in church. You come to pray.  By giving food to children to behave is setting them up with gluttony in the future.  If children can’t sit still for high mass, then go to low mass.  Especially when these families aren’t praying or living the faith during the week.  I see high mass as home school hang out.   Cut out the extra curricular outside activities like dance classes, sports.  They are a waste of time and money.  When we were young we had fun playing with cousins or playing on our own with neighborhood children because back then our neighborhoods and towns were 99 percent Catholic before Catholic elected officials and the diocese sold out to greed,lust, divorce, and clergy sex abuse.  

    There are many families living far away from family and friends.  That makes things really hard because a young wife doesn’t have a support system.  Looking back at my grand parents. Family lived together or had their own homes.  They helped out each other.  And they had skills.  They didn’t have tv or technology.  They had each other.  
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #101 on: September 15, 2019, 11:04:34 AM »
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  • There are many families living far away from family and friends.  That makes things really hard because a young wife doesn’t have a support system.  Looking back at my grand parents. Family lived together or had their own homes.  They helped out each other.  And they had skills.  They didn’t have tv or technology.  They had each other.
    That was the Latino family way, and also the Italian family way, then they came to the USA and they slowly lost it, and became like the Americans, like snakes, having offspring and then letting them go and fend for themselves, every family member living in a different city. Their children do not even know there own first cousins.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24