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Author Topic: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith  (Read 9194 times)

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Online Seraphina

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Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2019, 05:49:47 PM »
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  • That is pretty shocking. I would've thought those figures made sense for a normal school, but to have it be that bad even for an SSPX school means the issue is much worse than I thought.
    A business with this track record wouldn’t last long!  Would you go to a doctor if the majority of his initially healthy patients relapsed and died?  Or cross a new bridge designed by an architect whose past bridges collapsed?  
    The analogy, though, is not the best.  God charges neither the school nor the SSPX with the primary responsibility to raise children for Heaven.


    Offline Alan

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #31 on: August 30, 2019, 07:04:54 PM »
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  • I was talking to a 28-year-old man who grew up attending an SSPX primary school.

    He was away from the faith for ten years or so, but has recently returned. He said that from his class of twenty-five, he believes he is the only one practicing the Faith today, and he has only just returned.

    I know very few people who grew up in Tradition who still practice. An horrendous retention rate. Kyrie eleison.

    That's terrible.
    But we should look at reliable statistics before making conclusions. Personal observations or estimations can be misleading.
    Moreover that's only 1 school, what about other SSPX schools? There are so many factors, perhaps the factors that influenced that school were not present in other schools.

    I don't believe children raised in tradition easily lose their faith, that might be due to other factors.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #32 on: August 30, 2019, 08:16:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    Moreover that's only 1 school, what about other SSPX schools? There are so many factors, perhaps the factors that influenced that school were not present in other schools.
    I don't think anyone has reliable statistics so one has to go by what they see and hear.  And what I see and hear is that the % of Trads who fall away from their faith after highschool is of epidemic proportions, compared to 20 years ago.  Even when listening to Protestant radio, where children were brought up with good, natural law morals, they are shocked and scared at the number of kids who are rejecting religion outright, in their early 20s.  
    .
    There is hope that many of these kids will turn around after wasting a few decades of their life on hedonism, but only time will tell.
    .
    As we draw closer to the end times, it seems that the battle line for good vs evil is sharpening.  No longer does it take a decade for one to lose their Faith, but the devil's temptations can make it happen in a few years.  Those that do not pray to Our Lady will be lost, as only She can help us stay spiritually sane.

    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #33 on: August 31, 2019, 07:39:51 AM »
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  • I was talking to a 28-year-old man who grew up attending an SSPX primary school.

    He was away from the faith for ten years or so, but has recently returned. He said that from his class of twenty-five, he believes he is the only one practicing the Faith today, and he has only just returned.

    I know very few people who grew up in Tradition who still practice. An horrendous retention rate. Kyrie eleison.
    At least in my experience it has a lot to do with the culture. I've seen a lot of parents that when the kids reach the highschool years, they no longer take care of them because "they are old enough to take care of themselves" when in reality as children start to enter the real world, parents should be closer emotionally speaking to guide them and prepare them for the battle. Many trad kids grow inside a crystal ball and when exposed to the world as adults it's all a surprise and get easily caught in it. Other parents with many kids throw to the older ones the entire responsibilty of taking care of the younger ones, so they are eager to leave home as soon as they're 18. Being a good parent is not only provide for the physical needs of the children. Many parents fail on preparing their children to face the world. Teens are very vulnerable and that's when they need us the most.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #34 on: August 31, 2019, 08:19:21 AM »
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  • Maybe you should check out their face book pages or instagrams to learn why they leave the faith. Some have become worldly.  Saw Facebook page of one young trad woman where they were hanging out at bar drinking.  There are ones young trad girls wearing slacks and pants like the baby boomers with veils and some without veils.  

    I see things that go on that shouldn’t go on my with my own nieces.  I can see their Instagram pictures and texts.  My parents wont listen.  My sister (novus ordo who is living like an atheist) is the problem.  I see this.  She is her worst enemy.  My parents enable.

    If the women are home and men working, then it must be mothers that aren’t doing what they should be doing. I was upset when many trad moms wanted Montessori method for homeschool group.  I think it is messed up for a woman to stop home schooling to put children in public school during teen years claiming lack of money but has money and time for expensive concerts and girls night out at restaurant bars.  Then there moms who are fanatics.  They do everything for church while neglecting their husbands and children.   Maybe being a show off and attending two hour high Mass or an adult conference is too much for children.  Because many children are running around and don’t want to there.  They later rebel and reject the faith. 


    ( also, don’t forget the children who have been sɛҳuąƖly abused or harassed and have left the faith.  Many of those sɛҳuąƖly abused or harassed in the seminaries have left the faith too.).  Sedevacantists are not problem.  The “uniting of the clans”should include sedevacantists.  
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #35 on: September 06, 2019, 11:48:31 AM »
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  • That's terrible.
    But we should look at reliable statistics before making conclusions. Personal observations or estimations can be misleading.
    Moreover that's only 1 school, what about other SSPX schools? There are so many factors, perhaps the factors that influenced that school were not present in other schools.

    I don't believe children raised in tradition easily lose their faith, that might be due to other factors.
    From what I am seeing, in my part of the world, it's mainly the girls who fall out the quickest. Among my friends and former fellow parishioners, boys hang on better and are more pius and there is a much smaller attrition rate with them. The girls who have not fallen away (yet) are most probably on their way there, if not already so secretly.
    I am not the least bit surprised...
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #36 on: September 06, 2019, 11:55:52 AM »
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  • Maybe you should check out their face book pages or instagrams to learn why they leave the faith. Some have become worldly.  Saw Facebook page of one young trad woman where they were hanging out at bar drinking.  There are ones young trad girls wearing slacks and pants like the baby boomers with veils and some without veils.  

    I see things that go on that shouldn’t go on my with my own nieces.  I can see their Instagram pictures and texts.  My parents wont listen.  My sister (novus ordo who is living like an atheist) is the problem.  I see this.  She is her worst enemy.  My parents enable.

    If the women are home and men working, then it must be mothers that aren’t doing what they should be doing. I was upset when many trad moms wanted Montessori method for homeschool group.  I think it is messed up for a woman to stop home schooling to put children in public school during teen years claiming lack of money but has money and time for expensive concerts and girls night out at restaurant bars.  Then there moms who are fanatics.  They do everything for church while neglecting their husbands and children.   Maybe being a show off and attending two hour high Mass or an adult conference is too much for children.  Because many children are running around and don’t want to there.  They later rebel and reject the faith.


    ( also, don’t forget the children who have been sɛҳuąƖly abused or harassed and have left the faith.  Many of those sɛҳuąƖly abused or harassed in the seminaries have left the faith too.).  Sedevacantists are not problem.  The “uniting of the clans”should include sedevacantists.  
    ^^  This! ^^
    You might think your fellow youth are pius, but look at their social media and you will see they live double lives. 
    "Sunday Catholics" .
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll

    Offline Admin

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #37 on: September 06, 2019, 12:42:23 PM »
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  • This is a VERY important topic, as I've said many times before.

    We should spend approximately 1000X as many hours thinking, researching, and discussing this problem than we spend on "becoming experts on the Crisis in the Church", including the Pope question. If everyone followed my advice, there would be a lot less apostate children because parents would spend time learning about the world, parenting, psychology, getting to know their children and spending time with them, educating them about the world, etc. instead of arguing online about the status of the Pope.

    I trimmed the thread AGAIN, this time removing any trace of discussion about the CathInfo reputation system and past CathInfo trolls who have been banned. It is a distraction from such an important topic that needs to be discussed!

    I will correct some members: It's more like 1 in 7 (14%) that is the limit for downvotes. So if you have 100 downvotes, your worst enemy can only inflict 14 downvotes on you, and he's done. And if you really aren't a troll with horribly counter-Trad opinions, that enemy is going to be waiting a long time for others to give you downvotes. DO NOT think of them as official demerits, warnings, "strikes" (like on Youtube, where Youtube officials give you 3 strikes and then they ban you). It's the opposite! Any idiot can give you a certain number. So below a certain point, they are "noise level" and treated as such. I can always tell the difference between "normal wear and tear" and "this person is a troll and might need to be banned".

    No offense to anyone, but my system of throttling the downvotes to 14% has worked *perfectly* thus far -- and you'd have to have information I don't have to convince me otherwise.

    Don't worry, I haven't got one wrong yet. I don't even base my moderating and banning decisions on reputation score. The Rep score is one of about 20 factors I consider when deciding to ban a person or not. Long story short, don't worry about your Rep score.
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    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #38 on: September 06, 2019, 04:19:46 PM »
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  • I still can't find the, I believe SSPX but it may have been some other Trad group, study on it, and it was really very good.
    But anyway in the conclusion it mentioned that if the father is devout, the parents stay together, the family pray together daily, the kids attend a Catholic school(and they most certainly meant an SSPX one rather than what passes as a "Catholic" school in the NO), and the kids are involved in a religious youth group - the chances of them retaining the faith into adulthood is over 90%. I can't break it down further than that to tell you how much each individual point there is worth without finding the article, but it's food for thought.

    That's why it baffled me when an earlier poster mentioned that he knew of an entire class at an SSPX school who apostasised. I suspect for a majority of them it was caused by some combination of moving to a place where there were no Trad masses, going to college, or their family only being Sunday-Catholics. However a comment by another poster, who mentioned young adults they knew being "tired of fairy-tales", suggests another possible problem - the parents being too obsessed with prophecies and cօռspιʀαcιҽs and telling their kids that X will happen imminently, etc. If the children grow up waiting their whole lives for some prophecy to come true, it's no wonder they'll get exhausted and stop believing the prophecies, and the faith along with it. That's not to say you shouldn't tell your kids about Fatima etc., but I'd suggest trying not to be alarmist and obsessed with waiting for them to come true. The events will pass whether or not you anxiously wait for them and constantly look for signs, so you can relax and just live the faith instead.

    Sorry if that came off as preachy, I was just spit-balling ideas and theories. 

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #39 on: September 06, 2019, 04:37:34 PM »
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  • Quote
    We should spend approximately 1000X as many hours thinking, researching, and discussing this problem than we spend on "becoming experts on the Crisis in the Church", including the Pope question. If everyone followed my advice, there would be a lot less apostate children because parents would spend time learning about the world, parenting, psychology, getting to know their children and spending time with them, educating them about the world, etc. instead of arguing online about the status of the Pope.
    Spot on, Matthew!
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Seraphina

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #40 on: September 07, 2019, 04:12:20 PM »
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  • Catholics in this life belong to the Church Militant.  That means we are soldiers in a war.  If we adults are soldiers, we engage in combat with the enemy.  Is this what our children observe?  
    Adults engaged in combat?  Obedient to our superior officers, our priests?  Our priests to our bishops?  Our bishops to the generals, the cardinals?  The cardinals to the commander in chief, the pope?  The pope to the Supreme Commander in Chief, Our Lord Jesus Christ?

    It holds, then, that the children are in boot camp?  Are they?

    If our children do not see us in combat, are not trained for combat, how will they emerge victorious over the enemy?

    If basic consists of two hours of “nice” on Sunday, academic school on weekdays, and entertainment the rest of the time, should we be surprised we lose the battle?


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #41 on: September 07, 2019, 04:51:59 PM »
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  • So true, Seraphina.
    One thing though is wrong: that bishops are under obedience to a cardinal. A cardinal is merely a bishop who gets to elect the pope. He has no authority over a bishop. Bishop is directly under the pope, as is the cardinal.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Online Seraphina

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #42 on: September 07, 2019, 05:56:23 PM »
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  • So true, Seraphina.
    One thing though is wrong: that bishops are under obedience to a cardinal. A cardinal is merely a bishop who gets to elect the pope. He has no authority over a bishop. Bishop is directly under the pope, as is the cardinal.
    True.  The cardinals are more analogous to the president’s cabinet.   I hold to my analogy even if flawed.  Children and teens, especially want and NEED a cause they perceive worth dying for.  If all they’ve seen is a lovely high Mass, heard the Rosary beautifully prayed, gone on a few Catholic summer camps, pilgrimages, and a teen retreat...and the rest of the time spent shielded from reality, well-provided for, never wanting for life’s basic needs, that is the life they’ll live as adults, only they’ll drop the religious part, the part that calls for sacrifice when true sacrifice is mere lip-service.
    Whose fault is this?  I think it started with the generation that were young adults and children in the Depression.  I won’t explain it here.  For a good explanation, find Fr. Ripperger’s sermon, The Sixth Generation on Sensus Fidelium.  

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #43 on: September 07, 2019, 06:12:30 PM »
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  • Most children who enter religious life are hard-workers. They help out their families.  Many didn’t play sports, computers, dance classes, youth groups  or go to camp.  These young people stayed home with their families to socialize.  They took pilgrimages and other trips with their families only. Many of these families read the Bible and prayed the rosary every night after dinner.  They went to low Mass and came home. 

    Then came Vatican II..and hippy junk. Free love..and women working outside home. Grand parents moved away from families to retire. Priests molesting children.   Catholic families couldn’t afford Catholic school. It seemed Jєωιѕн and rich Protestant children could afford it while Catholic children had to go to CCD.  
    Nowadays, Moslems go to Catholic schools and have special prayer rooms.
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Children of Traditional Catholics Leaving the Faith
    « Reply #44 on: September 08, 2019, 03:46:13 PM »
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  • Most children who enter religious life are hard-workers. They help out their families.  Many didn’t play sports, computers, dance classes, youth groups  or go to camp.  These young people stayed home with their families to socialize.  They took pilgrimages and other trips with their families only. Many of these families read the Bible and prayed the rosary every night after dinner.  They went to low Mass and came home.

    Then came Vatican II..and hippy junk. Free love..and women working outside home. Grand parents moved away from families to retire. Priests molesting children.   Catholic families couldn’t afford Catholic school. It seemed Jєωιѕн and rich Protestant children could afford it while Catholic children had to go to CCD.  
    Nowadays, Moslems go to Catholic schools and have special prayer rooms.
    Many of these "Catholic" schools have taken the Cross from the school wall and have replaced it with a clock.

    "Time will pass, will you?"

    In addition, these Catholic schools use state mandated text books without the mention of Christ or the saints because they can obtain these books at less cost. Worse, these state text books, especially those produced for California teach abortion, same sex marriage, euthanasia, and the optional gender myth.

    Students attending these "Catholic" schools graduate from these expensive private schools thinking like public school students, but perhaps slightly better behaved. They believe in abortion, act like snowflakes, and are largely suffering from depression or other mental illnesses because they are upset that God did not consult them before He created them -- "I wanted to be a boy, or a girl. I wanted to be black, brown, or white. I wanted brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, or hazel eyes. I wanted blonde hair, red hair, brown hair, black hair. I wanted to have straight hair, curly hair, frizzled hair, etc. etc. I do not like my looks." And so, they blame God and start hating Him. Cry. Cry.

    They have no Cross to venerate. They have no idea of the pain Christ suffered to redeem us from our selfish selves.

    Our children have become big cry babies thanks to the indoctrination they are receiving in the schools and colleges.
    Lord have mercy.