Author Topic: Charity towards a Corporate Person?  (Read 741 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Charity towards a Corporate Person?
« on: July 10, 2019, 05:29:04 PM »
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    John McFarland wrote:
    > Matthew,
    >
    > On reflection, you are right.  Rash judgment is not the right characterization.
    >
    > So let me offer a more accurate characterization.
    >
    > You own Cathinfo.  You continue to allow to appear all sorts of alleged facts and rarely make any effort to determine whether they are true or not.  This blackens the name of the Society without evidence.  It doesn't take a moral theologian to identify this as matter for confession.
    >
    > In caritate,
    > Jack McFarland  



    Actually, you're wrong again.

    Again, "the SSPX" isn't a person, doesn't have a soul, and therefore isn't entitled to my charity.  You've been an American lawyer for too long -- America has this  "corporation" mentality, the basis of American Law, that Google, Disney, Microsoft, etc. are Persons entitled to all the rights and privileges of an American citizen.

    *BUZZ* wrong!

    If the SSPX as an organization were in existential peril, I would not be obligated to render assistance. If "the SSPX" were in danger of destruction, I would be at liberty to toss it an anchor rather than a lifeline. (As long as we're not talking about the individual priests and Faithful being in danger for their lives, of course.) If the SSPX corporation were dissolved or shut down by the government, I would rejoice and celebrate, assuming a hypothetical scenario in which there was no further menace or danger for Traditional Catholics or the Resistance. The Traditional Catholic world would be better off after a period of adjustment, just like the world would be better off if Wal-Mart went out of business. At first it would be inconvenient for many, but eventually small businesses would start up again to serve communities all over, and in the long run everyone (except for a few large shareholders and Sam Walton's heirs) would be better off. Wal-mart is huge and well-organized, but it also doesn't care about people and exists for its own sake. It fights against paying just wages, fights the formation of unions, forces employees to work off the clock, forces employees to take government benefits to make a living, promotes the use of slave labor overseas, and other unjust practices. All the billions of dollars made at Wal-Marts worldwide go to enrich a few individuals; that money is not kept in the various communities from which it was extracted.

    The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that going "back to basics" would be beneficial for ALL SSPX-attending Traditional Catholics and priests. Each and every one of them would be better off spiritually WITHOUT an SSPX than WITH an SSPX.

    But my Wal-mart analogy aside, God can AND WILL raise up children of Abraham from the very stones if need be. God doesn't need the SSPX. As the SSPX falls lower and lower, eventually being absorbed into Conciliar Rome completely, God will rise up other groups and/or individual priests (the "loose independent network of priests") if that be His will. Perhaps instead God intends to bring on the Chastisement after the SSPX is out of the picture. I have no idea what God has planned for us. But I do know with 100% certainty that God is in charge, and that He doesn't need the SSPX. And I don't need the SSPX. What I need is God and the Catholic Faith, without which I can't save my soul. The SSPX is not the Church, despite all the propaganda to the contrary. It is only an organization and a brand that I am free to reject.

    My duty as the owner of CathInfo is to make sure that CHARITY -- that is, towards individuals who have the capability to worship and love God forever -- is never violated. So if someone claimed that your son was doing some dastardly need, I would need to have some evidence to justify having it on the forum.

    If all this was a ruse to get me to admit that, then mission accomplished. Please feel free to point out anything that needs attention. I am compelled by Catholic morality as much as any other man who lives with the prime directive to serve God first and everything else second. I consider myself a servant of God and on the road to heaven. I have made my choice; My eggs are completely in that basket.

    I already have overwhelming evidence ("a preponderance", to use a legal term) and moral certainty that the SSPX has changed as described by the Resistance. See the CCCC thread with 105 exhibits of evidence.
    I don't need to have moral, much less metaphysical, certainty about each individual data point. The overall truth is obvious to anyone with open eyes.

    Matthew

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Charity towards a Corporate Person?
    « Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 05:30:28 PM »
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    Dear Matthew,

    ...
    I won't leave you alone.  You as the sole owner of Cathinfo are the distributor of a continuing flow of unsupported attacks on the SSPX.  They all seem to boil down to two things: 

    1.  That the Society is doing wrong by putting itself under the authority of Rome.  I suspect that +Williamson is the source of this.  Be that as it may, the Society is already under the authority of Rome, as for that matter are you and I.  Why do you suppose that ABL, old and sick as he was, put himself through the agony of dealing with Rome up to the 1988 consecrations, and afterwards made quite clear that he didn't reject dealing with Rome thereafter?  To maintain otherwise is sedevacantism, although I don't imagine that most Resistants understand that.

    2. That since the Society is willing to put itself under the authority of Rome, and +Fellay has been SG for most of the post-1988 period, and continues to be active as advisor to the new leadership, it follows that all dealings with Rome are evidence that +Fellay is engaged in selling out to the V2 church, and is pulling the strings of his puppets the Society leadership.  Believing this requires ignoring or misinterpreting most of the voluminous explanations of the Society's dealings with Rome and the principles underlying those dealings. The most notable example of this is the treatment of all dealings with Rome or Novus Ordo bishops and priests as part of the sellout.  I find this reminiscent of the Pharisees' reaction to Jesus socializing and eating with publicans and sinners.  You will recall Jesus's response: that he had not come to call the righteous, but sinners.  Compare: they admit retired Novus Ordo bishops to retire to live in their schools (or more accurately, admit one Novus Ordo bishop to live in one of their schools, and sometimes invite NO bishops to visit the Society priories and parishes in their dioceses).  

    It can't be news to you that a substantial part of the Cathinfo contributors don't know what they're talking about, but persist in talking about it.  A substantial number of them also really enjoy hating the SSPX.  You are too busy with your family and your business to ride herd over these, nor to help the few poor slobs who really want to get a handle on things.  So why are you doing this?

    In caritate,
    Jack McFarland 

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Charity towards a Corporate Person?
    « Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 05:31:18 PM »
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  • You are still laboring under certain delusions.

    1. You confuse Eternal Rome with Conciliar Rome, the latter of which is schismatic. And yes, I hate the Conciliar Church with a holy hatred for its Freemasonry, heresy, and general opposition to God and all that is holy. I hate Vatican II as an event, in all its documents, as I hate the devil himself. I also hate the whole new religion spawned by this masterpiece of the devil (Vatican II). I renounce Vatican II, and all its works, and all its display.

    The Conciliar Church contains some individuals who still have the Faith, but many others who have lost it, and even more who are in the process of losing the Faith. I don't hate any individuals, but I will vigorously oppose 100% of those who are part of the Conciliar beast, just as I oppose George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Rachel Maddow, and other modern day workers of evil. Even a "useful idiot" in an evil organization must be opposed.

    Calling us sedevacantist is just a Traditional Catholic bludgeon. Might as well call us "racist", "nazi", or "anti-Semite". Those are current bludgeons used by the Left against any and all opponents.

    I am not required to give a full accounting of the mystery of iniquity, or to adequately explain the what/who/how/why/when of the Crisis in the Church. It is a supernatural mystery; to understand it would be to understand the mind of God Himself.

    What I am required to do: reject that which isn't Catholic, and to stay aloof from that which puts my Faith and salvation in jeopardy. To do otherwise is not "obedience" or "love", but rather the worst form of pride. Isn't that what the SSPX tried to convince Novus Ordo Catholics for years? Now the Resistance has to remind SSPX Catholics of this same truth!

    2. Yes, believing that the SSPX is working towards reconciliation with the Conciliar Church requires that one reject all the SSPX propaganda to the contrary. I am ready and willing to do this.

    We must have no truck with the Conciliar Church, any more than we should have truck with New Age, Freemasonry, or any other demonically inspired religions. But you no longer see it that way, which is evidence that you are a frog who has been boiling in the pot too long.

    You fail to see that every single argument you put forward ("Sedevacantist!", "We have to call sinners to repentence!", "We need to reach out to those in the modern world!", etc.) would work equally well against Catholics in the pews in 1970, to compel them to stay in the Conciliar Church rather than become Traditional Catholic and leave for small "illicit" Tridentine Mass centers.

    The situation today is slightly more nuanced than 1970, but it's essentially the same battle. Just like several heresies came back for another go-round in a "lite" or more nuanced version, if you read your Church history.

    You can't say anything to us Resistance that couldn't have been said by Cardinal Ratzinger to Archbishop Lefebvre. Likewise, your arguments pro-SSPX today are the same arguments given by priests to promote Vatican II back in 1970. That should disturb you, but for some reason it doesn't.

    Lastly, I enjoy hating evil because that goes hand-in-hand with loving God. And loving God is the only source of true happiness. You can't truly love God unless you also hate that which is evil, or opposed to God. Likewise you can't love Truth unless you hate error. Therefore, I hate Vatican II (and sin in general) as much as I love God. Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies, and the Conciliar Church is Modernism incarnate.

    I see no issues in the SSPX Resistance subforum that need my attention at this time.

    Matthew
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Charity towards a Corporate Person?
    « Reply #4 on: July 12, 2019, 08:27:25 AM »
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  • Traditional Priest Suppressed: Pro-Gay Priests Protected



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    The Church is where she is today because — in the Conciliar Popes — Peter chose to submit the Church’s teaching to the judgment of Modern Man, rather to the judgment of Christ the King!
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    An amazing sermon was delivered at The Church of St. Bede the Venerable. Last November, Father Vaughn Treco drew a line in the sand and called out the effects of Vatican II for what they were. The sermon can be heard on The Remnant’s YouTube channel, or read it here. Because Fr. Treco gave this sermon, he was punished by Bishop Stephen Lopes. And now? He can no longer hear confessions, and he can no longer give homilies. If he is acting as a supply priest, the homily must be given by a deacon, and if there is no deacon, he is to use Reading 2 from the daily office as his homily. His faculties from the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis were pulled.
    This is what happens to a priest who criticizes a non-binding council. 
    Furthermore, Archbishop Bernard Hebda removed Fr. Treco as chaplain from the University of Minnesota Medical Center. And, so now, why did that happen? Because he dared to celebrate a Novus Ordo Mass ad orientem. When confronted one day by an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion as to why he celebrated Mass like that, he explained to her they were there to worship God, not people. Everyone is to be oriented in one direction during a Mass—towards God. The result? A good, old-fashioned backstabbing. 
    Fr. Treco is not trusted by his superiors. He is not trusted to publicly talk, and from the banned confession faculties, we can clearly see that they don’t trust what he’ll say behind closed doors. Fr. Treco threatens the New Order. Meanwhile, the infamous Fr. James Martin is allowed to snidely and glibly push his sodomy agenda. As a result, Martin gets endorsements from cardinals and bishops, he is honored with a Vatican position in the Office of Communications, and he is invited to lectures across the land. Because, after all, only Traditionalist Catholics go to Hell in the post-Vatican II Church.
    Adding insult to injury, only ten minutes away at the infamous St. Joan of Arc parish, Fr. Jim DeBruycker just this month allowed two sodomite men to talk to the congregation about the baptism of their “son.” This, in spite of the fact that according to St. Thomas Aquinas, effeminacy is a vice, and according to Catholic Church teaching, sodomy is a sin. Yet there appears to have been no suppression whatsoever of Fr. DeBruycker.
    Apparently some sort of demon has gutted the insides of the Catholic Church, and now wears it around as a “meat suit.” 
    There are many tactical lessons that can be drawn from this episode. Most notably: if you plan to publicly speak out against the idol of our age, the Second Vatican Council, then expect immediate suppression. But also, you can’t trust having simple conversation with a Baby Boomer “she-chaplain” either. Leftist Catholics behave like spurned women, and they have no problem with ruining your entire life if you don’t treat them like a queen. 
    I can sympathize with the priest in this story. What happened with Fr. Treco is sort of what’s been happening in Tulsa. And in fairness, this unmeasured response to Fr. Treco might not be coming entirely from Bishop Lopes and Archbishop Hebda. There may be some kind of a presbyteral council conspiring behind closed doors to destroy any new green shoots of Tradition in the community—which is just one more reason to oppose the democratization of the Catholic hierarchy, as it would only lead to a monstrous, unaccountable oligarchy.
    If you are a priest, and you decide to be a public martyr, then do it boldly. Strike and strike true, as Fr. Treco has. Make no bones about what you believe, speak plainly, and DEFINITELY make no apologies. The world is in need of sacrifice now, most assuredly. So if you are a priest who considers spitting in the face of Moloch, just be ready for what’s coming, and know that we laity adore, honor, and cheer for such priests. Good priests are heroes, and the only reason the people did not stand to applaud Fr. Treco at the end of his November 25th homily was because they honored the Mass. Rumors have it that everyone at The Church of St. Bede the Venerable is behind Fr. Treco. And certainly, I can attest, there are those of us abroad who now also know of his heroism.
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    The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the teeth of the children are set on edge. 

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    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: Charity towards a Corporate Person?
    « Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 06:24:50 PM »
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    The most notable example of this is the treatment of all dealings with Rome or Novus Ordo bishops and priests as part of the sellout.  I find this reminiscent of the Pharisees' reaction to Jesus socializing and eating with publicans and sinners.  You will recall Jesus's response: that he had not come to call the righteous, but sinners.  Compare: they admit retired Novus Ordo bishops to retire to live in their schools (or more accurately, admit one Novus Ordo bishop to live in one of their schools, and sometimes invite NO bishops to visit the Society priories and parishes in their dioceses).  

    I don't recall Jesus eating with publicans and sinners and then inviting them to live among the children as authority figures. This is a faulty comparison. I'd like to see the backlash (I still have hope there might be some) if they placed a blatantly modernist NO bishop smack in the middle of an SSPX school here in the US. Think about that, a blatantly modernist bishop permanently set up in St Mary's, Armada, Walton, any other parish school, hearing confessions and participating in the school life, without ever having publicly renounced his errors. It's hard to believe that would not shock a good number of people.

    (Not to mention he says himself that he is there as a liaison for Rome, so the "eating with publicans and sinners" is false twice over.)

    Offline ResistanceFan

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    Re: Charity towards a Corporate Person?
    « Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 10:09:33 AM »
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  • Corporate persons are not real persons in the eyes of God. The executives and leaders of a corporation will be judged by God, however, on how they behaved as Catholics.

     

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