Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Chaos Returned  (Read 4464 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adolphus

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 467
  • Reputation: +467/-6
  • Gender: Male
Chaos Returned
« on: March 13, 2015, 11:30:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Chaos Returned

    As the Conciliar Church in chaos sinks,
    ‘Tis a gift of God if anyone still thinks.


    A fascinating paragraph from the book Iota Unum, written by the Italian layman Romano Amerio and much admired by Archbishop Lefebvre, has already been quoted in these “Comments.” In the book Amerio takes apart in masterly fashion all the doctrinal errors of Vatican II. In section #319 he writes: (1) If the present crisis is tending to overthrow the nature of the Church, and if (2) this tendency is internal to the Church rather than the result of an external assault as it has been on other occasions, then (3) we are headed for a formless darkness that will make analysis and forecast impossible, and (4) in the face of which there will be no alternative but to keep silence (English edition, p.713; Italian edition, p. 594).

    This is strong meat, if one thinks about it. Amerio is saying we are on the brink of chaos, because of course (1) the present crisis is both tending to overthrow the nature of the Church and (2) it is internal to the Church, when the Pope himself is making statements like, “There is no Catholic God,” and “ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs need to be evaluated,” statements whose deliberate ambiguity opens the door wide to the overthrow of all Catholic dogma and morals. But why should (3) Catholic analysis and forecast become impossible, and (4) how can there be nothing more to say? How can Amerio draw such a dark conclusion?

    Because Our Lord says, “I am the light of the world. He that followeth me, walketh not in darkness” (Jn.VIII, 12), which strongly suggests that the mass of the world’s population that does not now follow him is already in darkness. He also says to those that do follow him, “You are the light of the world” (Mt.V, 14), which strongly suggests that if convinced Catholics are fewer by the day, then the darkness in Church and world is growing darker by the day. Alright, one might say, but darkness is only a metaphor. Why should Catholi c analysis and forecast become impossible?

    (3) Because more and more people today are unable to think. Because ever since Our Lord with his Incarnation brought supernatural grace to the rescue of wounded and struggling nature, that nature has no longer been able to stand upright without that grace. So when men turn their backs on Jesus Christ and God, they are undermining their own nature, and they repudiate that common sense with which they are endowed by nature to think, as to the content of their thinking in accordance with reality, and as to its procedure in accordance with logic. They want freedom from reality and logic in order to defy God, by remaking the world in accordance with their fantasy.

    It follows that if Jesus Christ came to the rescue of mankind and of human nature through establishing his Catholic Church, and if at Vatican II the Gentiles too finally repudiated that Church, then the process of men tearing themselves and their nature and their think ing to pieces took at the Council such a huge step forward that it is virtually irreversible. Here is how Amerio can see, implicit in Vatican II, a “formless darkness” of which the belligerent chaos of opinions proudly today prancing on the Internet might serve as an example and a foretaste.

    But (4) why not cry out in that darkness? Why should there be “no alternative but to keep silence”? Because in a chaotic din the truth simply cannot be heard, except, one might add, by a few souls whom God has preordained to hear it (Acts XIII, 48). These souls are chosen by God, not by men, and they can come from the most surprising backgrounds. They do not like “formless darkness,” and Our Lord leads them to the Father (Jn.XIV, 6). They will be an important help for the Church and a hope of the world.

    Kyrie eleison.


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13817
    • Reputation: +5566/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2015, 05:39:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Good one!
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline curioustrad

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 427
    • Reputation: +366/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2015, 11:41:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • At the risk of adding to the chaotic din and the prancing of internauts: "Magnificent !" I say.
    Please pray for my soul.
    +
    RIP

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10512
    • Reputation: +3267/-207
    • Gender: Male
    • I will not respond to any posts from Poche.
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2015, 11:53:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The CHAOS actually begun on the First Sunday of Advent in 1964.   I REMEMBER.

    And it never ceased. It keeps marching on with a vengeance, against those that do

    not obey every command.

    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2015, 04:52:05 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: RomanCatholic1953
    The CHAOS actually begun on the First Sunday of Advent in 1964.   I REMEMBER.

    And it never ceased. It keeps marching on with a vengeance, against those that do

    not obey every command.


    And the Romans have been at the front leading the assault the whole time, with their overlords whipping them to move forward with the plan, attacking and destroying all who resist.
    You are very much aware of it all.


    Offline Green Scapular

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 192
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2015, 11:36:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Is he saying that the command of Our Lord to the Apostles/Church to "go and teach all nations" is ended now because no one nowadays can hear the Truth except those special few whom God will directly convert?


    Offline Pilar

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 215
    • Reputation: +264/-239
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2015, 11:48:16 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Green Scapular
    Is he saying that the command of Our Lord to the Apostles/Church to "go and teach all nations" is ended now because no one nowadays can hear the Truth except those special few whom God will directly convert?



    How do you get that from what His Excellency has said? Does that even remotely sound like Bishop Williamson? He did not say anything about converting without hearing. He said that they would hear the truth. That implies that someone is speaking the truth to be heard.

    As far as a chosen few goes, all of us who follow the truth in these times are chosen and very few. For God's own reasons, only He knows them, we, as miserable as we are, have been chosen to receive the true Faith. Deo gratias!

    By the by, I was not the one to give you thumbs down! You asked an honest question, that doesn't deserve thumbs either way, in my opinion.

    Offline Green Scapular

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 192
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #7 on: March 15, 2015, 01:32:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Pilar
    Quote from: Green Scapular
    Is he saying that the command of Our Lord to the Apostles/Church to "go and teach all nations" is ended now because no one nowadays can hear the Truth except those special few whom God will directly convert?



    How do you get that from what His Excellency has said? Does that even remotely sound like Bishop Williamson? He did not say anything about converting without hearing. He said that they would hear the truth. That implies that someone is speaking the truth to be heard.

    As far as a chosen few goes, all of us who follow the truth in these times are chosen and very few. For God's own reasons, only He knows them, we, as miserable as we are, have been chosen to receive the true Faith. Deo gratias!

    By the by, I was not the one to give you thumbs down! You asked an honest question, that doesn't deserve thumbs either way, in my opinion.


    Where did I get that?  From his last paragraph:
    "But (4) why not cry out in that darkness? Why should there be “no alternative but to keep silence”? Because in a chaotic din the truth simply cannot be heard, except, one might add, by a few souls whom God has preordained to hear it (Acts XIII, 48). These souls are chosen by God, not by men, and they can come from the most surprising backgrounds. They do not like “formless darkness,” and Our Lord leads them to the Father."



    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16432
    • Reputation: +4859/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #8 on: March 15, 2015, 06:03:29 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • “We’ve had enough of exhortations to be silent! Cry out with a hundred thousand tongues. I see that the world is rotten because of silence.”
    – St. Catherine of Siena
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16432
    • Reputation: +4859/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #9 on: March 15, 2015, 06:16:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "Letter after letter was dispatched to the princes and leaders of Europe. To Urban himself St. Catherine wrote to warn him to control his harsh and arrogant temper. This was the second pope she had counseled, chided, even commanded."

    How many letters have you written to the Pope?
    How many letters have you written to corrupt politicians and NO bishops?

    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Centroamerica

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2655
    • Reputation: +1641/-438
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #10 on: March 15, 2015, 08:07:56 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline JPaul

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3832
    • Reputation: +3722/-293
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #11 on: March 15, 2015, 10:58:33 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well, it seems that if you support the resistance so called, or others who claim to be spreading the truth, you should perhaps, save your money.
    If the truth can no longer be heard in these times, would it not appear that the Church has been overwhelmed by its enemies?

    Is it any wonder that chaos has "returned"?

    Offline peterp

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 202
    • Reputation: +0/-14
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #12 on: March 15, 2015, 04:02:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Good one!

    In case you didn't understand my previous post, it is this: you are gullible. It is not what the bishop is say, but rather, what he is failing to say (and do).

    p.s. Don't forget, keep you donations to SMI rolling in... And don't forget to clap.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13817
    • Reputation: +5566/-865
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #13 on: March 15, 2015, 06:10:03 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: peterp
    Quote from: Stubborn
    Good one!

    In case you didn't understand my previous post, it is this: you are gullible. It is not what the bishop is say, but rather, what he is failing to say (and do).

    p.s. Don't forget, keep you donations to SMI rolling in... And don't forget to clap.


    Not sure what you are even talking about but +Williamson has said and done probably more than most of us will ever do. If you missed him in action the last 35 years, sorry, but whatever you think he is failing to say, my guess is that he not only said it, he repeated it many times but you never heard it.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline peterp

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 202
    • Reputation: +0/-14
    • Gender: Male
    Chaos Returned
    « Reply #14 on: March 15, 2015, 07:50:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: peterp
    Quote from: Stubborn
    Good one!

    In case you didn't understand my previous post, it is this: you are gullible. It is not what the bishop is say, but rather, what he is failing to say (and do).

    p.s. Don't forget, keep you donations to SMI rolling in... And don't forget to clap.


    Not sure what you are even talking about but +Williamson has said and done probably more than most of us will ever do. If you missed him in action the last 35 years, sorry, but whatever you think he is failing to say, my guess is that he not only said it, he repeated it many times but you never heard it.



    It seems my previous post to you has been removed for som inexplicable reason. Essentially the point was this: it was a bad EC – not because of the content – but because of what is missing; he is preaching to the converted.

    There is a crisis in the Church. Thousands, likely millions, of souls will be lost. You may not agree with the SSPX, Fr. Pfiffer, SVists, FSSP, indultarians etc., but they are out there, in the field, fighting for souls.You may fault each one in turn but you can fault their zeal.

    Where is Bp. Williamson’s zeal? Where is his fight? Why doesn't he come and show us how it should be done? No, for him it is ‘chaos for here on in’.

    So if you think the ECs are good, then you've swallowed the bait, you've failed to see the bigger picture. Your reaction should have been ‘yes, my lord, we know all this, but souls are being lost, now, this minute, and the next. What are YOU going to do about it. Where is the action…

    … What is his message? (Fr. Pfiffer)