Author Topic: Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium  (Read 3212 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
« on: March 08, 2013, 04:59:22 PM »
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  • This protest takes the form of an open letter to +Fellay

    Monsignor,

    As many sources tell me that the position of the SSPX has not changed I permit myself to keep you informed of what is happening in  Antwerp Belgium.

    A few years ago there was some confusion as to the 'novena' to the Divine Mercy being started publicly in an SSPX chapel on Good Friday.
    Picture of this DMercy unveiled behind  communion rail as everything else was covered.

    Mentzingen took at the time the right R.Catholic position that should be maintained in  a Traditional  chapel and this novena  was cancelled.

    Several attempts were later still taken to push this 'modern' idea forward in public in a SSPX Traditional chapel that follows the 1962 liturgical calendar with no sign yet of this feast. Pope JPaul II instituted this feast and it was only in 1999 that it was celebrated for the first time in the Vatican.

    As you probably know BEFORE VAT II this devotion was banned and forbidden  by Rome around the year 1959.  However modern Rome and the modern calendar  has this feast restored and it came part of the new  liturgy appearing here and there   and replaced our Trad. low Sunday by  the  Sunday of the Divine Mercy within the 'Modern Church'.

    WHY now is there a novena started in an SSPX chapel for the Divine Mercy on GOOD FRIDAY ? Again in Antwerp !!!!!!!!!!

    Does" Good Friday" need a modern approach in a Traditional chapel ?  Do we not have all the devotion   and liturgical solemnity in commemoration of the passion and death of Our Lord?
    Who decides on these novelties  on GOOD Friday within the Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church?

    We even seem being pushed towards the new liturgical calendar as our SSPX bulletin announces   a' gebedsstonde' (N.O. language for prayer moment)  of the Divine Mercy during Benediction at 15 hours on April 7th 2013
    Telling us "to spread the word... " for this modern feast!

    What happened to your advise given on this matter before or are we being prepared to accept the new liturgical calendar in the near future?

    I can only pray and hope that we are publicly spared from this devotion in an SSPX chapel.

    May God Bless you and help us to survive modern Rome.


    Helen Astle
    Goedetijdstraat 110
    B- 2660 Antwerpen
    Belgium
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    Offline Matthew

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 05:04:55 PM »
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  • I wonder what Sedevacantist Divine Mercy fan (who happens to be online) thumbed this down?  :rolleyes:

    (No, I didn't look it up. I'm not using my mod superpowers for this one...)

    You really are a walking contradiction, has anyone ever told you that?

    Are you not aware that Divine Mercy is a post-Vatican II devotion? That "saint" Faustina and the Divine Mercy devotion rose through the ranks as Pope John Paul II rose through the ranks?

    That there would be no universally-known or popular Divine Mercy devotion if it weren't for Pope John Paul II, who you reject as Pope?

    Traditional Catholics prefer the Devotion to the Sacred Heart, which not only shows God's love and mercy for us, but also the consequences of sin.

    Divine Mercy tells us to "not worry about sin. God's mercy consumes all."


    You're extremist in some ways -- no male or female should show a bit of ankle, even if sitting alone in their apartment -- but then you swing all the way over to the extreme left when it comes to your choice of devotions?

    Maybe one extreme led to the other? It's fascinating in a way, but puzzling at the same time.
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    Offline Matto

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 05:14:55 PM »
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  • One time when I went to confession I confessed having prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet as a sin. During that confession I also confessed having prayed the "Luminous Mysteries" of the Rosary in public at a Novus Ordo Church.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Matthew

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 05:17:17 PM »
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  • I don't know that I'd call it a sin.

    But I certainly wouldn't promote it to other Traditional Catholics.

    The problem with the Divine Mercy -- like the Novus Ordo Mass -- is what it leaves out.
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    Offline Matto

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 05:19:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    I don't know that I'd call it a sin.


    When I made that confession I think that my confessor thought it was a scruple and not a sin, if I remember correctly (it was a long time ago).
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..


    Offline Matthew

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 05:19:49 PM »
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  • I think the Dimond Brothers, like a broken clock, can be right twice a day.

    This article reveals a lot of facts about the Divine Mercy devotion. This isn't the musing or opinion of the Dimond brothers.

    (I never thought I'd be posting something from MHFM!)


    Over the years I had heard different opinions about the Divine Mercy Devotion and didn’t know exactly what to think about it.  One thing that did concern me was that it seemed to be popular among the Charismatic “Catholics” and seemed to be used as a substitute for the Rosary.  Some time ago I decided to quickly flip through the more than 600-page book Divine Mercy in my Soul Diary by Sister Faustina.  Below are just a few strange things that I found that are enough to convince me that this “devotion” is something to be avoided.
     
    On page 23 of the book Divine Mercy in My Soul (The Diary of Sr. Faustina), it says: “… and the host came out of the tabernacle and came to rest in my hands and I, with joy, placed it back in the tabernacle.  This was repeated a second time, and I did the same thing.  Despite this, it happened a third time…” (Marian Press, Stockbridge, MA, 1987)
     
    On page 89 of the book Divine Mercy in My Soul, it says: “When the priest approached me again, I raised the host for him to put back into the chalice, because when I had first received Jesus I could not speak before consuming the host, and so could not tell him that the other host had fallen.  But while I was holding the host in my hand, I felt such a power of love that for the rest of the day I could neither eat nor come to my senses.  I heard these words from the host: I desired to rest in your hands, not only in your heart.”
     
    On page 168, it says: “The moment I knelt down to cross out my own will, as the Lord had bid me to do, I heard this voice in my soul: From now on, do not fear God’s judgment, for you will not be judged.” (from Feb. 4, 1935)
     
    On page 176, “Jesus” says to her: “You are a sweet grape and a chosen cluster; I want others to have a share in the juice that is flowing within you.”
     
    On page 191, “Jesus” says to her: “For your sake I will withhold the hand which punishes; for your sake I will bless the Earth.”   (see also page 378.)
     
    On page 247, “Jesus” says: “And know this, too, my daughter: All creatures, whether they know it or not, and whether they want to or not, always fulfill my will… My daughter, if you wish, I will this instant create a new world, more beautiful than this one, and you will live there for the rest of your life.”
     
    On page 260, “Jesus” says: “For many souls will turn back from the gates of Hell and worship My mercy.”
     
    On page 374, “Jesus” says: “If they will not adore My mercy, they will perish for all eternity.”
     
    On page 382, “Jesus” says: “I desire that My mercy be worshipped.”
     
    On page 288, “Jesus” says: “That is why I am uniting myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.”
     
    On page 400, “Jesus” says: “I see your love so pure, purer than that of the angels, and all the more so because you keep fighting.  For your sake I bless the world.”
     
    On page 417, we read that “Jesus” supposedly gave Sr. Faustina this instruction: “Tell the Superior General to count on you as the most faithful daughter in the Order.”
     
    On page 583, we read that Sr. Faustina said: “When I took the Messenger of the Sacred Heart into my hand and read the account of the canonization of St. Andrew Bobola, my soul was instantly filled with a great longing that our congregation, too, might have a saint and I wept like a child that there was no saint in our midst.  And I said to the Lord, ‘I know your generosity, and yet it seems to me that you are less generous towards us.’  And I began again to weep like a little child.  And the Lord Jesus said to me, ‘Don’t cry.  You are that saint.’”
     
    On page 602, we read that “Jesus” supposedly said: “I cannot stand them, because they are neither good nor bad.”
     
    On page 612, we read that “Jesus” supposedly said: “I bear a special love for Poland, and if she will be obedient to My will, I will exalt her in might and holiness.  From her will come forth the spark that will prepare the world for My final coming.”
     
    On page 643, we read that Sr. Faustina said after receiving Communion: “Jesus transform me into another host!…. You are a great and all-powerful Lord; you can grant me this favor.  And the Lord answered me, ‘You are a living host.’”
     
    On page 208 we learn that “Jesus” supposedly told Sr. Faustina about the new Divine Mercy Devotion and supposedly instructed her that it is to be said on the beads of the Rosary: “This prayer [the Divine Mercy Devotion] will serve to appease my wrath.  You will recite it for nine days, on the beads of the Rosary, in the following manner: First of all, you will say one Our Father and Hail Mary and the I Believe in God.  Then on the Our Father beads you will say the following words: ‘Eternal Father I offer you the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.  On the Hail Mary beads you will say the following words: ‘For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the whole world.’  In conclusion, three times you will recite these words: ‘Holy God, holy mighty one, holy immortal one, have mercy on us and on the whole world.’”  (Saturday, Sept. 14, 1935)
     
    The above statements present a number of problems.  The first problem is the promotion of Communion in the hand, which is supposedly endorsed by Our Lord.  The Host flies into her hand numerous times, and Our Lord supposedly says that He desires to rest in her hands.  I believe this is a diabolical snare to get Communion in the hand accepted in advance of the Vatican II religion.
     
    Second, we see unnecessary praise heaped upon this sister.  We see things said to her supposedly by Our Lord that wouldn’t foster humility, but vanity – that she is basically the greatest thing in the world.  I don’t believe Our Lord would ever instruct her to tell her superior that she is the most faithful daughter in the Order.  Our Lord could have told the superior such a thing if he wanted it known.
     
    Third, we see that Sr. Faustina is told that God’s spark – which will prepare the world for His Second Coming – comes out of Poland!  This has been interpreted to mean that God’s chosen person is John Paul II, who was from Poland!  Since we know that John Paul II was an apostate, non-Catholic antipope, who literally preached the doctrine of antichrist in the Vatican while endorsing the false religions of the world, this shows us again that Sr. Faustina’s revelations were from the Devil.  In fact, it shows us how much the Devil wanted to prop up support for John Paul II.
     
    Fourth, the Divine Mercy Devotion is centered around mercy at a time when mankind was coming closer and closer to having filled up the cup of divine justice.  The problem at that time, and today, of course, was that men didn’t fear God and continued to offend Him.  They needed to hear about His justice.  But the Divine Mercy devotion was the perfect false devotion to make people believe that they will receive God’s mercy even if they stay in their sins – instructing people to even “worship” His mercy.
     
    Fifth, and perhaps most importantly, would God reveal a new devotion to be said on the beads of the Rosary shortly after His Mother came to Fatima to work a profound miracle to reveal, among other things, the necessity of the Rosary?  The specific direction given to Sister Faustina for the Divine Mercy Devotion to be prayed on the beads of the Rosary is clearly, we believe, the Devil’s substitute for the Rosary.  And we’ve seen it used that way with so many souls.  The Divine Mercy Devotion is a clever counterfeit which, being traditional in so many ways, serves the Devil’s purpose to get this counter-devotion inserted into conservative-minded circles which the Devil hopes will be used as a substitute for the Rosary.
     
    All these things considered, the Divine Mercy Devotion is something which should be avoided by Catholics.  Catholics should say an extra rosary or the Stations of the Cross instead.  People should know that, in the 1950’s, the Divine Mercy Devotion was suppressed and Sr. Faustina’s diary was on the index of forbidden books.  It was rehabilitated around the world by John Paul II.
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    Offline ben

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 09:04:18 PM »
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  • I have not found and read it yet, but I've been told that Fr. Peter Scott wrote a good article for the Angelus quite some time ago refuting the Divine Mercy devotion - in case anyone is interested.  

    Offline Magna opera Domini

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 09:30:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: ben
    I have not found and read it yet, but I've been told that Fr. Peter Scott wrote a good article for the Angelus quite some time ago refuting the Divine Mercy devotion - in case anyone is interested.  


    See the June 2010 Angelus, Questions and Answers


    Offline B from A

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 09:38:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Magna opera Domini
    Quote from: ben
    I have not found and read it yet, but I've been told that Fr. Peter Scott wrote a good article for the Angelus quite some time ago refuting the Divine Mercy devotion - in case anyone is interested.  


    See the June 2010 Angelus, Questions and Answers



    Quote
    Questions and Answers

    Fr. Peter R. Scott
     
    What are we to think of the Divine Mercy devotion?
     
    Many people have certainly received graces from the devotion to Divine Mercy propagated by St. Faustina, and her personal piety was certainly most exemplary. However, this does not necessarily mean that this devotion is from God. It is true that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, that it was through his efforts that the prohibition was lifted on April 15, 1978, and that he even introduced a feast of Divine Mercy into the Novus Ordo. However, the fact that good and pious people receive graces and that Sister Faustina was pious do not necessarily means that it is from heaven. In fact, it was not only not approved before Vatican II. It was condemned, and this despite the fact that the prayers themselves of the chaplet of Divine Mercy are orthodox.
     
     
     
    Condemned by the Holy Office
     
    There were two decrees from Rome on this question, both of the time of Pope John XXIII. The Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office, in a plenary meeting held on November 19, 1958, made the following decisions:
     
     
     
    The supernatural nature of the revelations made to Sister Faustina is not evident.
     
    No feast of Divine Mercy is to be instituted.
     
    It is forbidden to divulge images and writings that propagate this devotion under the form received by Sister Faustina.
     
     
     
    The second decree of the Holy Office was on March 6, 1959, in which the following was established:
     
     
     
    The diffusion of images and writings promoting the devotion to Divine Mercy under the form proposed by the same Sister Faustina was forbidden.
     
    The prudence of the bishops is to judge as to the removal of the aforesaid images that are already displayed for public honor.
     
     
     
    What was it about this devotion that prevented the Holy Office from acknowledging its divine origin? The decrees do not say, but it seems that the reason lies in the fact that there is so much emphasis on God’s mercy as to exclude His justice. Our sins and the gravity of the offense that they inflict on God is pushed aside as being of little consequence. That is why the aspect of reparation for sin is omitted or obscured.
     
    The true image of God’s mercy is the Sacred Heart of Jesus, pierced with a lance, crowned with thorns, dripping precious blood. The Sacred Heart calls for a devotion of reparation, as the popes have always requested. However, this is not the case with the Divine Mercy devotion. The image has no heart. It is a Sacred Heart without a heart, without reparation, without the price of our sins being clearly evident. It is this that makes the devotion very incomplete and makes us suspicious of its supernatural origin, regardless of Sister Faustina’s own good intentions and personal holiness. This absence of the need for reparation for sins is manifest in the strange promise of freedom from all the temporal punishment due to sin for those who observe the 3:00 p.m. Low Sunday devotions. How could such a devotion be more powerful and better than a plenary indulgence, applying the extraordinary treasury of the merits of the saints? How could it not require as a condition that we perform a penitential work of our own? How could it not require the detachment from even venial sin that is necessary to obtain a plenary indulgence?
     
     
     
    Presumption in the Writings of Sister Faustina
     
    The published Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalski (Marian Press, Stockbridge, MA, 2007) also indicates several reasons to seriously question the supernatural origin of the more than 640 pages of voluminous and repeated apparitions and messages. The characteristic of any true mystic who has received supernatural graces is always a profound humility, sense of unworthiness, awareness and profession of the gravity of his sins. Yet this humility is strangely lacking in Sister Faustina’s diary. On October 2, 1936, for example, she states that the “Lord Jesus” spoke these words to her: “Now I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love me, but because My will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (§707, p. 288). This gives every appearance of being a claim of being more united to Jesus than anybody else, even the Blessed Virgin Mary, and certainly more than all the other saints. What pride, to believe such an affirmation, let alone to assert that it came from heaven!
     
    In April 1938, Sister Faustina read the canonization of St. Andrew Bobola and was filled with longing and tears that her congregation might have its own saint. Then she affirms the following: “And the Lord Jesus said to me, Don’t cry. You are that saint.” (§1650, p. 583). These are words that most certainly no true saint would affirm, but rather his sinfulness and unworthiness of his congregation. This presumption in her writings is not isolated. She praises herself on several occasions through the words supposedly uttered by Jesus. Listen to this interior locution, for example: “Beloved pearl of My Heart, I see your love so pure, purer than that of the angels, and all the more so because you keep fighting. For your sake I bless the world.” (§1061, p. 400). On May 23, 1937 she describes a vision of the Holy Trinity, after which she heard a voice saying: “Tell the Superior General to count on you as the most faithful daughter in the Order” (§1130, p. 417). It is consequently hardly surprising that Sister Faustina claimed to be exempt from the Particular and General Judgments. On February 4, 1935, she already claimed to hear this voice in her soul: “From today on, do not fear God’s judgment, for you will not be judged” (§374, p. 168). Add to this the preposterous affirmation that the host three times over jumped out of the tabernacle and placed itself in her hands (§44, p. 23), so that she had to open up the tabernacle herself and place it back in there, tells the story of a presumption on God’s grace which goes beyond all reason, let alone as the action of a person supposedly favored with innumerable and repeated mystical and supernatural graces.
     
    It is perhaps not accidental that Pope John Paul II promoted this devotion, for it is very much in line with his encyclical Dives in Misericordia. In fact, the Paschal Mystery theology that he taught pushed aside all consideration of the gravity of sin and the need for penance, for satisfaction to divine justice, and hence of the Mass as being an expiatory sacrifice, and likewise the need to gain indulgences and to do works of penance. Since God is infinitely merciful and does not count our sins, all this is considered of no consequence. This is not the Catholic spirit. We must make reparation for our sins and for the sins of the whole world, as the Sacred Heart repeatedly asked at Paray-Le-Monial. It is the renewal of our consecration to the Sacred Heart and frequent holy hours of reparation that is going to bring about the conversion of sinners. It is in this way that we can cooperate in bringing about His Kingdom of Merciful Love, because it is the perfect recognition of the infinite holiness of the Divine Majesty and complete submission to His rightful demands. Mercy only means something when we understand the price of our Redemption.


    See also here.

    Offline ben

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 09:39:07 PM »
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  • June 2010 Angelus  ---THANK YOU!

    Offline michaela benedicta

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 09:52:19 PM »
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  • AHA!

    These are the exact documents that I found when I was researching the "Divine Mercy!" Thank you for posting them! The part about the grapes and the "juice flowing within her" was weird, to say the least!
    Did Our Lord say things like that to St Teresa of Avila? St Getrude? Any other saint!? The answer is a resounding NO! He also did not puff up their pride. I tried reading the "Diary" a few times.. It just gave me a headache! My husband then forbade me to read it, once I told him about those "choice selections." It's diabolical! And with the whole Host-in-hand debacle, you notice how it is JUST ambiguous enough to NOT give away whether she was kneeling for Holy Communion, or how they were receiving. It just stinks! :really-mad2:

    Also, someone here posted Dom Gueranger's work on the Liturgical Year. On Low Sunday, it says that it ranks as a double, and that NO OTHER FEAST should be put on it. I will leave it up to greater minds to figure out if that is another nail in the coffin... But it is for me.

    This is important.. I have a friend that is mixed up in this.. He is even in a "pious union" based on the "Divine Mercy..." Ugh.... :facepalm:

    Love,
    +michaela b.

    PS and the song that they made up for it is NO and sappy!! Yuck!! :really-mad2:
    Let the down thumbs fly!!

    "God's power is made perfect in infirmity" --St. Paul


    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 10:28:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    I wonder what Sedevacantist Divine Mercy fan (who happens to be online) thumbed this down?  :rolleyes:

    (No, I didn't look it up. I'm not using my mod superpowers for this one...)

    You really are a walking contradiction, has anyone ever told you that?

    Are you not aware that Divine Mercy is a post-Vatican II devotion? That "saint" Faustina and the Divine Mercy devotion rose through the ranks as Pope John Paul II rose through the ranks?

    That there would be no universally-known or popular Divine Mercy devotion if it weren't for Pope John Paul II, who you reject as Pope?

    Traditional Catholics prefer the Devotion to the Sacred Heart, which not only shows God's love and mercy for us, but also the consequences of sin.

    Divine Mercy tells us to "not worry about sin. God's mercy consumes all."


    You're extremist in some ways -- no male or female should show a bit of ankle, even if sitting alone in their apartment -- but then you swing all the way over to the extreme left when it comes to your choice of devotions?

    Maybe one extreme led to the other? It's fascinating in a way, but puzzling at the same time.


    Some non-trad Catholics prefer the Sacred heart devotion too.  

     :smile:
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 10:31:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    One time when I went to confession I confessed having prayed the Divine Mercy Chaplet as a sin. During that confession I also confessed having prayed the "Luminous Mysteries" of the Rosary in public at a Novus Ordo Church.


    There is nothing objectionable about the prayers themselves, at least not that I can see.  I think the Rosary should have been left alone, and I don't pray the luminous mysteries unless I am praying the Rosary with a group that is using them, but they are all events in the life of our Lord.  I don't see how it could be a sin to meditate on them.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline michaela benedicta

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    « Reply #13 on: March 08, 2013, 10:44:31 PM »
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  • I found this on one of the links Matthew gave..

    Fr. Perez - Fifth Sunday After Pentecost
    June 27, 2010
    In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen
    Well, my dear faithful, today I just wanted to say a couple of words about something -- I get a lot of questions about this every year and I did not have the proper source materials to answer this at the time of year it usually comes up. But the latest copy of The Angelus Magazine had some answers I needed. So I
    decided to say a few words.
    This concerns what we call the Divine Mercy Devotion. And it kind of came out of the blue from John Paul II.  And every year on the Sunday following Easter, which we call Low Sunday, in Latin they call it Sunday in White, Dominica in Albis, I have questions asked me, Father, why don’t we don’t we do Divine Mercy
    Sunday. Now, the easy answer was, We don’t do it because it’s not in the traditional calendar. And that could be right. But, then again, the feast of Padre Pio isn’t in the traditional calendar and we do recently canonized saints using the Common from the Missile, so why not Divine Mercy Sunday. And I would like to
    say just a few words about that because it shows the type of things we have to be aware of, I guess, as Catholics trying to slug it out and achieve our salvation the best way we can when we keep on having novelties thrown at us daily. I have looked at the Divine Mercy devotion, just the devotion itself, as have
    many people here, and found nothing wrong with the devotion itself, the prayers of the devotion. And there is nothing wrong with the prayers themselves of the devotion. That’s why I wanted to say a few words about it, because there is something wrong with what surrounds this new devotion.
    Now, I might also add first off that there are people, possibly even people here who have received graces from doing the Divine Mercy devotion. That is not an indication that the devotion itself is necessarily from heaven. Please remember that God will answer your prayers. And you may not get the same level of grace as you would if something were perhaps from heaven with particular promises attached. For example, the revelation, small “r”, private revelation but still from God of the First Saturdays or the First Fridays and the
    graces that Our Lord and Our Lady will promise you from those. Okay, that’s one thing because those are from heaven and you do get those. But you always get some grace by your prayers. You know, if you wanted to make a pilgrimage to visit the burial place of some saint and you went on this pilgrimage and, instead of, you thought you were in the right cemetery and you were kneeling by, you know, St. Philomena or whatever -- she’s not in a cemetery, she’s in a church, but let’s say just for example -- and instead you were kneeling beside the grave of like Chef Boyardee or something like that, and it wasn’t St. Philomena at
    all. God would still give you graces with a good heart and willing to please Him and make reparation for your sins. You made this pilgrimage, you will not go without grace. It’s not like, Well, you’re at the wrong grave.
    Sorry, you know, you went 6,000 miles for nothing and now you get nothing. No, God will always answer your prayers. So please remember when you hear people say, Well, I have gotten graces from this devotion, that it in itself is not an indication that the devotion is from heaven. Certainly the graces are always
    from heaven.
    Now what then is wrong with the Divine Mercy devotion? Now this research, thankfully, comes from Fr. Scott, Fr. Peter Scott, who was once District Superior here, and he gave me -- it’s nearly impossible without
    plowing through the Vatican Library to find source material on this. So I’m not exactly plagiarizing, but he did provide me most of what I needed for this, so Berettas off to Fr. Scott.
    What is wrong with this. First of all, Pius XII even, when this first came to his attention, and what came to his attention was not the prayers of the devotion as they came to be later on, but the circumstances of the socalled
    apparitions to Sr. Faustina and the content of the supposed apparitions,
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    that is, what Our Lord supposedly told Sr. Faustina and what he told her to repeat. Under Pius XII, then, this devotion, the apparitions, the writings of Sr. Faustina, were placed on the index of prohibited books. This no longer exists. On the one hand, it is unfortunate that it no longer exists. But on the other hand, it would fill this room even if it were on microfiche. Everything practically that is written in this day and age has something objectionable to the Catholic faith. So it is not possible any more to have an index of forbidden books. I have a copy of an old one and, you know, it’s only about that thick (Father demonstrating size of
    book), stuff that you shouldn’t read, but it’s impossible now.
    Anyway, back in the time of Pius XII, he put this on the index of prohibited books. What that meant was there was content in it that would be objectionable to Catholics and lead them astray, lead them in the
    wrong direction for one or more reasons. So it was an interesting beginning.
    Now, next, come along Pope John XXIII and twice under him the Holy Office, now the Holy Office -- that’s what that building out there is going to be, as a matter of fact, the holy office, when I finally get situated --
    but the Holy Office is another name for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Cardinal Ratzinger headed just before he became Pope Benedict XVI. It was also called the Holy Office of the Inquisition at one time. It’s name has changed over several years. It is the Office directly under the Pope
    responsible for maintaining the purity of the doctrine, the dissemination of different documents or whatever.
    If the Pope wants to set people straight on a particular thing, he usually goes through the Holy Office. So proclamations, declarations, documents issuing from the Holy Office may be seen as coming from the Pope
    himself, coming from the Holy See. So John XXIII, you know, I know how traditional Catholics usually feel about John XXIII because on the one hand he did good things, he did condemn error in the church, on the
    other hand, he started the whole Vatican II ball rolling. So it may be a bit incredible, but twice under Pope John XXIII, this particular devotion was condemned through the Holy Office. The first was on November 19,
    1958. And the declaration from the Holy Office declares three particular things about this devotion. That there is no evidence of the supernatural origin of these supposed revelations, meaning they looked at the content and they said, There is nothing here to indicate that this is supernatural. And normally there is in a
    real apparition. In a real apparition, Our Lady of Lourdes, for example, Our Lady of Fatima, whatever, you can look at the content and say it’s not proof. The first analysis is not proof. But there is stuff here that could possibly be of divine origin. On the other hand, in the Divine Mercy, they said there is no evidence
    whatsoever, meaning, translation, We don’t think and we’re pretty sure this does not come from God.
    They furthermore declared that there shall not be a feast of Divine Mercy instituted. No feast of Divine Mercy is to be instituted. Why? Because if it is based on something that there is no proof comes from God, then you are being rash and temerarious by instituting a feast, of all things, in the church, based on
    something that is a false apparition. And thirdly, it is forbidden to publish the images and writings that propagate this devotion under the form received by Sr. Faustina. So it was furthermore forbidden to even publish the image, the so-called image of Our Lord and Divine Mercy. Now this, by the way, image you have all seen, even if in passing and you would know it and recognize it. It shows kind of a -- I don’t know -- the picture of Jesus makes me uneasy. I can’t really tell you why. I don’t like it. I don’t like the face, I don’t like the gesture, I don’t like the posture, I don’t like anything -- that’s the first thing that struck me about this
    image is even as an image of Our Lord, I don’t want it around because it’s kind of, for lack of a better term, creepy to me when I look at it. But second of all, it shows these rays, kind of multicolored rays, I think it’s like red, white and blue, or maybe it’s just red and blue or something like that, coming out of His chest area,
    no heart, just these rays. And you’ve all seen this. Okay, so it was forbidden to publish those images.
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    Nextly, March 6, 1959, they made another proclamation, Pope John XXIII had them do it again, and said that it was forbidden, he reiterated that it was forbidden to diffuse images and the writings of Sr. Faustina, and the images of this apparition, the Divine Mercy, and that it was up to the bishops to decide how they
    were going to get rid of images that had already been put up. Okay. Now, these are -- I don’t need to say much more about these. Two Popes felt strongly enough about this to bother, one putting it on the Index, the other issuing two proclamations through the Holy Office as to the spiritual danger to the faithful of having this thing promulgated. Not much more needs to be said on that.
    Now what is wrong with the devotion and the image. What about the content? Now, of this, because there is very little in the proclamations of what exactly -- some of this is extrapolation from things that were said and
    also from the theology of the apparition itself. But first of all, consider the true image of Christ our Savior.
    Probably the most symbolically rich and accurate representation of Him besides the crucifix which, you know, there are many images that are appropriate and accurate. The other one, though, would be the
    image of the Sacred Heart, because the image of Our Lord and the Sacred Heart has in it all the theology of redemption. You have Our Lord, they pierced His hands, His feet and His Sacred Heart pierced for us, so
    there was a price for our redemption. The crown of thorns circling the Heart, but yet burning with love for man which is why He made this sacrifice. It was His burning love for us in spite that we are ungrateful
    creatures who rebelled on our Creator. Think about it. He created us and then we nailed Him to a cross and He was God and completely innocent of anything. So the Sacred Heart encapsulates all of that. He is
    pointing to this symbolic font of love and mercy for us. The devotions to the Sacred Heart are repeatedly about reparation for our sins. We are sinners, we must do reparation. Yes, we have promises from Our
    Lord, but he paid this price, we must do reparation. We should always be doing penance for our sins and various kinds of reparation.
    The Divine Mercy is the Sacred Heart without the heart. You notice in the image there is no heart. There are simply rays coming out of nothing, and that encapsulates what is wrong with Divine Mercy. It is Mercy with
    no price whatsoever, with no obligations whatsoever, and that is not the message of Christ. Christ is merciful, but His mercy is for the living. His mercy is in pardoning us one time after another, our repeated
    sins in the sacrament of penance, yet always taking us back no matter how bad our sins are. What happens in the sacrament of penance? Well, penance. Not only are you there at the sacrament recognizing your
    utter submission to the church and your dependence on the sacraments for your very forgiveness, but you walk out of there with an imposed penance, and many times from this pulpit you are reminded that
    whatever, decade of the rosary, a rosary you get, or three rosaries even -- not very often -- three rosaries
    sometimes, but that you must continually to do penance, your own penance. You don’t just do a decade of the rosary and forget about it the rest of the week and say, Well, I’ve done my penance now. I can go merrily on my way. We live a spirit of penance. So this is at the core what is wrong with Divine Mercy. It is promises of lots of things with no requirement for penance, no mention of reparation, no mention of any of this. This jives very well with Pope John Paul II encyclical Dives in Misericordia, which I do not recommend
    that any but the most resistant of you read, because it is full of a lot of kind of misleading things. And the first is a re-echoing of this mercy with no price, gifts from heaven with no requirements, God’s mercy with no
    mention of penance or reparation for sin whatsoever. Not surprising, then, that Pope John Paul II, in spite of this and other things I will mention in just a second, instantly, his very first year of his election to the papacy
    which was 1978, he set in motion the canonization of Sr. Faustina and founding a Divine Mercy Sunday feast that was prohibited and the very idea suppressed by previous Popes.
    So, anyway, the first is, then, that it’s this mercy for nothing kind of thing. Here, you get all this and you give nothing back for your sins. There is, in fact, no recognition for sins. The other is from the
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    writings of Sr. Faustina herself. Once again, a lot of reading that was published finally in 2007 in English.
    She was Polish, of course, and it is 640 pages long. And in it is this thread of statements supposedly from
    Our Lord and from Sr. Faustina that would make a correct thinking Catholic very uneasy, to say the least.
    For example, I’ll just take a couple of quotes from her writings. Supposedly, on October 2, 1936, Our Lord
    appeared to her and said, Now I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love Me, but because My
    Will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other
    creature. Now, what is wrong with that? What is wrong with that is, Do you expect us to believe that He has
    united Himself more intimately with Sr. Faustina than with the Blessed Virgin Mary? You see, at first it’s not
    obvious to most people. That’s why you hire me to tell you things like this. Right? Because at first you would
    read that and you’d go, Oh, that’s beautiful. Right? And maybe later it would hit you that, Wait a minute,
    more intimately with Sr. Faustina than with any other creature. Our Lady was the Immaculate Conception
    but she was a creature of His, she was created by Him and made from dust, from nothing, as the rest of us
    were, albeit with the greatest exalted position free from original sin from the very beginning. I’m not
    discounting that. But she is likewise a creature and so He is telling supposedly Sr. Faustina this. And that
    smacks of pride. Now maybe Sr. Faustina didn’t think about it, maybe it was a false apparition and she was
    repeating what she heard from this whatever was appearing to her. In any case, it does smack of pride.
    There is also presumption in many cases. For example, Our Lord is supposed to have said to her in 1937,
    Beloved pearl of My Heart. Now, what else bothers me about this is that is just saccharin. You know, look
    how Our Lady speaks to Sr. Lucia or to St. Bernadette. It’s not, beloved pearl of my heart. That’s gross. You
    can’t really see Our Lord stooping to saccharin. Our Lord is Christ the King, Creator of the universe, and
    ruler of all that is. He doesn’t go, beloved pearl of my heart. Okay, that’s just one thing.
    He says, I see your love so pure. Oh, please. I can’t even read this. Purer than that of the angels. Now, we
    are not, except for the Blessed Virgin Mary being free, but because the rest of us aren’t free from original
    sin, the rest of us are not capable of love purer than the angels, first of all. And He goes, all the more
    because you keep hiding ….for your sake, I bless the world. Okay. Now, for your sake I bless the world.
    That might be fine. If we had one real saint in the world, then the Lord will give us blessings because of
    even one real saint in the world. That’s not the objection. The objection is, it was 1937, we were on the
    verge of World War II, which had already been mentioned to Sr. Lucy at Fatima. You know, if Russia is not
    consecrated, and then they don’t convert, then this big disaster will befall mankind for their evil ways and
    their sins. Now, we were just about to do that, yet He is saying, for your sake, I am going to bless the world.
    Was that a blessing on the world? And her native Poland was not unnoticed by der feuer, so it doesn’t seem
    likely.
    Okay, there are two other things. I’m sorry, but you have to laugh sometimes, it’s so (inaudible). Sr.
    Faustina claimed that Our Lord told her that she was exempt from judgment, every judgment, particular
    judgment and the general judgment. Now, nobody but the Blessed Virgin, as far as I know, is free from
    general and particular judgment. St. Thomas Aquinas, the pious little story is, had to genuflect in purgatory
    before going to heaven. Okay. Maybe it’s just an allegory or something to edify us a little bit, that sort of
    thing, but, still, nobody is exempt from any kind of judgment. And add to this, as Fr. Scott put it in his
    Australian way, of course. He’d have to say with his accent -- the preposterous affirmation that the host
    three times over jumped out of the tabernacle and placed itself in her hands so that she had to open up the
    tabernacle and place it back in there. Now it makes it sound like a hamster that has gotten out of its cage.
    Oh, no, here it is again. I have to go put this back
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    now. But think about it, how many times has the church declared that the hands of a priest are consecrated
    to handle the blessed species, and what kind of lesson would you be giving to the world by this example of
    the host leaping into her hands so that she had to place it herself back in the tabernacle.
    Our Lord does not contradict his Church by word or by gesture. And this would be a little bit by both. She
    told what happened, but the gesture of it would be Our Lord contradicting the real presence itself and
    everything that that includes.
    Anyway, as far as just wrapping it all up, the whole Divine Mercy devotion does not represent a Catholic
    spirit. The Catholic spirit is one of constant reparation in penance for our sins, for praying for the graces of
    God, for the mercy of God in this life, and things you know well. Now, as I said, Pope John Paul II, then
    immediately contradicted this, instituted a feast of Divine Mercy, and I have to finish up by saying, please be
    aware it is not the content of this devotion that there is anything wrong with. I think you can really see what I
    am talking about. It is because of the background. You don’t justify something with a particular devotion
    and, for heaven’s sake, it’s own feast day, whose content and past, the context was condemned and
    condemned for very good reason. So, when you look at the Divine Mercy devotions, they are perfectly
    orthodox. There is nothing in there that is heretical or presumptuous, or really in the prayers themselves.
    But just remember the reason why it has been condemned and that we do not recognize Divine Mercy
    Sunday is because of its’ past, not because of the content of the prayers. And I know I’ll have to say this
    next year around the Sunday after Easter, but I didn’t have the information this year. But it is very important
    to know this, that many things that have been done and resurrected in modern times were condemned in
    the past. And it’s not a case of the church changing its’ mind. It’s a case of the church doing something it
    shouldn’t be doing.
    One more thing, I read just yesterday, even Pope Paul VI, Archbishop Bernini wanted Pope Paul VI to
    change the rosary and he refused. And he said this would be incalculably disastrous for the faithful, the
    notion that the Pope had altered the rosary. And once again, what did Pope John Paul II do? He added
    these preposterous nonsense luminous mysteries. They make no sense whatsoever. Previous Popes have
    noted the organic way that the mysteries flow from the very annunciation of Our Lord’s birth to Our Lady, to
    her crowning in heaven, the kind of the end of the salvation cycle, as it were, one event after the other. The
    luminous mysteries reflect none of that, and even Paul VI condemned changing the rosary. Why he didn’t
    follow his own purposes and his own ideas and not change anything else, we don’t know. But Our Lady at
    least stopped him there.
    In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen

    "God's power is made perfect in infirmity" --St. Paul

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Change Alert: Divine Mercy in Belgium
    « Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 11:08:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    I wonder what Sedevacantist Divine Mercy fan (who happens to be online) thumbed this down?  :rolleyes:

    (No, I didn't look it up. I'm not using my mod superpowers for this one...)

    You really are a walking contradiction, has anyone ever told you that?

    Are you not aware that Divine Mercy is a post-Vatican II devotion? That "saint" Faustina and the Divine Mercy devotion rose through the ranks as Pope John Paul II rose through the ranks?

    That there would be no universally-known or popular Divine Mercy devotion if it weren't for Pope John Paul II, who you reject as Pope?

    Traditional Catholics prefer the Devotion to the Sacred Heart, which not only shows God's love and mercy for us, but also the consequences of sin.

    Divine Mercy tells us to "not worry about sin. God's mercy consumes all."


    You're extremist in some ways -- no male or female should show a bit of ankle, even if sitting alone in their apartment -- but then you swing all the way over to the extreme left when it comes to your choice of devotions?

    Maybe one extreme led to the other? It's fascinating in a way, but puzzling at the same time.


     :applause:
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

     

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