Author Topic: Challenge to Ignis Ardens Fellayites - Come on in, the water-s fine! (Read 8861 times)

Neil Obstat · « **on:** August 07, 2012, 06:25:33 PM »

Mr. Baldwin from Ignis Ardens,

Why do you enjoy hiding in your little cave over there at IA? Do you have the
courage of your convictions? Are you willing to set foot into a real forum of
discussion, or do you just like to hide like a coward all the time, perhaps in
real life as you do on the Internet?

Anthony Malleus from Ignis Ardens,

Are you just a little weaker than your mentor Mr. Baldwin? It seems you rarely
have much initiative of your own but wait instead for him to take a stand and
then you follow like a sheep dog, or, is it a lap dog? You tell me.

Here are a few of your collective, ridiculous assertions:

Bishop Fellay was simply following the clear path of Archbishop Lefebvre, who himself sought a regularization with Rome after the 1974 declaration they keep referring to.

This is patently false. It is a lie. If you don't think so, come in here and let's talk.

The other option is for them to hold to their opinion and to continue, week after week, to give anti-sspx sermons (very edifying for the faithful). Forgetting about the errors of Vatican II, the new "error" they will focus on is the SSPX - the boogie man that must be opposed each week in order to justify themselves and their new project.

How generous of you to admit that Fr. Pfeiffer's sermons are edifying. Perhaps you
should listen more closely and you might learn something. You think, for example,
that he has forgotten about the errors of Vatican II? That alone proves you haven't
been paying much attention. Shall we enumerate the citations of Vatican II errors
to which Fr. Pfeiffer alludes in context with the present defection of the nefarious
Fellayites? Do you have a spine, Mr. Baldwin?? Or, are you without one?

May they realize their error soon, before the pit are digging themselves into is too deep to escape from.

And if you're bent on ending already poorly-composed phrases and sentences
with a preposition, come on over to CathInfo and see what happens....

AM:

It is as though Fr. Pfeiffer and co. want to see a division in the SSPX. It seems to come from a perverse spirit. As I have said all along, those who seem hell bent on destroying the reputation of Bishop Fellay seem to have their own agenda, which is not sure pure as they claim.

So it is they, who stand in accord with Apostolic Tradition, who are forcing a
division, is it? Let me guess, you would have been at the elbow of Judas Iscariot,
looking like an earlier version of Quasimodo, "Yes, Master, shall we go spend the
30 pieces of silver now, eh - eh - eh?" Bishop Fellay doesn't need any assistance
in the reputation department, so why are you trying so hard, in the face of reason
and common sense? Or is that your "own agenda?" Make that a "not so pure
agenda." (Or should I say "not sure pure," like you do?)

Okay, Mr. Lucky Baldwin and Anthony Hammerhead, it's your turn...........

(Sorry, Quasimodo, nothing personal: you weren't such a bad guy after all, it's
just the image that I'm after, you know? I hope you don't mind!) (Quasimodo
might actually be a saint in heaven, let's just say "it's a hunch.")

For the record, anyone wishing to look up the source can find it here.

And this is it:

Quote

Mr. Baldwin
Posted: Aug 6 2012, 11:53 AM

Ardent Member

Group: Members
Posts: 153
Member No.: 1823
Joined: 13-May 12

Each week Fr. Pfeiffer seems to be getting more and more desparate.

Are you sure you don't mean desperate? Do you even know what you're talking about?
Or are you simply uneducated and can't bother to use the spell check feature?
Is your reasoning as lousy as your language skills? Oh, wait, I guess not. It's worse.

Quote

He seems determined to break apart the Society by convincing his very small flock that the Society is compromising. Yet his arguments get weaker and weaker each week. It is as though he is shrinking in stature with each new sermon, and, realizing it, is becoming more desparate. He needs our payers. My guess is that at the GC, all of the lies, calumny and detraction that resulted in so much division, were dispelled, and the unity of the Society has returned, or is rapidly being restored.

Unfortunately, Fr. Pfeiffer was caught up in the lies, calumny and detraction and spoke out too soon. He convinced himself and a few others that Bishpop Fellay was going to "sell out" the Soceity, and that he had departed from the path of Archbishop Lefebvre by negotiating with Rome, when in fact Bishop Fellay is following in the footsteps of Archbishop Lefebvre who himself sought regulatizaion with Rome. Even after being "excommunicated", ABL left the door open to future talks with Rome as evidenced by the talk he gave in 1990. But the "sell out" the Fr. Pfeiffer spoke of never materialized. Instead, at the GC it was agreed that prior to any agreement another GC would be held to discuss and vote on the matter. Now, rather than humbling himself and admitting that he was wrong about the "sell out", he seems hell-bent on destroying the Soceity, in order to somehow justify his position. But I think he realizes that his efforts are coming to naught. The unity of the Society has returned, and he finds himself on the outside. It is very sad to watch. May we all keep him in our prayers.

This post has been edited by Mr. Baldwin on Aug 6 2012, 11:54 AM

and.......

Quote

Anthony Malleus
Posted: Aug 6 2012, 12:29 PM

Senior Member

Group: Members
Posts: 44
Member No.: 1895
Joined: 7-June 12

Well said Mr. Baldwin,

It is as though Fr. Pfeiffer and co. want to see a division in the SSPX. It seems to come from a perverse spirit. As I have said all along, those who seem hell bent on destroying the reputation of Bishop Fellay seem to have their own agenda, which is not sure pure as they claim.

Bishop Fellay continues to insist that he will not compromise the position of the SSPX and has made that clear again.

I think Fr. Pfeiffer and co. will soon find themselves outside the SSPX and go the way that so many have gone before them.

Indeed, let us keep him and other such self deluded clergy in our prayers.

finegan · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2012, 06:40:07 PM »

There's some good discussion on IA, although I get the feeling that many of the British contributors there are a bit disdainful of the rude, outspoken Americans who frequent this forum. Just today, some nice English lady demanded that Americans posting on IA stop making references to "drinking the Kool-Aid." Apparently she found it unseemly... :shocked:

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #2 on:** August 07, 2012, 07:02:02 PM »

Quote from: finegan

There's some good discussion on IA, although I get the feeling that many of the British contributors there are a bit disdainful of the rude, outspoken Americans who frequent this forum. Just today, some nice English lady demanded that Americans posting on IA stop making references to "drinking the Kool-Aid." Apparently she found it unseemly... :shocked:

Riiiiight. In Merry Ol'e England, you don't dare talk like Americans.
You'd have to translate:

"Drinking the Kool-Aid" = Imbibing the Bilgewater (be sure you say "WOE-tah")

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

In my book, couching your words in pleasantries doesn't constitute license to lie.

I'll call it as I see it. When the facts are obscured, it's time for daylight to dispel
the lies. When you shine the light of day on cockroaches, they run for cover.

Let them run. So far, they haven't dared to show up.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #3 on:** August 07, 2012, 07:13:06 PM »

I don't pay much attention to who's who when I drop in and read IA, but I know there are a few posters there who would be banned here for their blindness toward the whole SSPX situation.

I think you might have to go chat with them over there.

Incredulous · « **Reply #4 on:** August 07, 2012, 08:16:31 PM »

Quote from: finegan

There's some good discussion on IA, although I get the feeling that many of the British contributors there are a bit disdainful of the rude, outspoken Americans who frequent this forum. Just today, some nice English lady demanded that Americans posting on IA stop making references to "drinking the Kool-Aid." Apparently she found it unseemly... :shocked:

I thinks its a good Forum too. I like its color-scheme and organization, but their administrators are too hands-on and controlling.

I couldn't believe the moderators shut-down IA at the request of the French SSPX District Suprior? It was right when Bp. Fellay released his ridiculous Menzingen movie. At that point, the IA forum collectively realized that he had sold us out. It was dramatic, but what a time to shut it down?

Having criticized IA, to the British District's credit, they are the toughest SSPX
resistance Catholics going.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #5 on:** August 07, 2012, 10:13:41 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Mr. Baldwin from Ignis Ardens,

Why do you enjoy hiding in your little cave over there at IA? Do you have the
courage of your convictions? Are you willing to set foot into a real forum of
discussion, or do you just like to hide like a coward all the time, perhaps in
real life as you do on the Internet?

Anthony Malleus from Ignis Ardens,
...

The 2 you mention Neil simply don't want their comfortable existence jeopardized. The one calling himself Baldwin isn't quite as stupid as he acts, but they and IA's poster-child for cognitive dissonance, Dawn Marie, generally act a lot like a certain belligerent Aussie. They see their cozy little world crumbling, and believe if the rest of us would just "go along to get along",
everything will turn out OK. So they try their hand at social engineering. One of these claims to have the inside track from +Williamson, but I find that claim to be ridiculously exaggerated based on among other things, on some private correspondence I became party to.
Another factor may be veiled threats given them in private, e.g., "if this disruptive behavior doesn't stop we'll probably have to close a few Mass centers, and this one is first on the list". That trick usually works well on weaker personae.

Incredulous · « **Reply #6 on:** August 07, 2012, 11:17:15 PM »

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Mr. Baldwin from Ignis Ardens,

Why do you enjoy hiding in your little cave over there at IA? Do you have the
courage of your convictions? Are you willing to set foot into a real forum of
discussion, or do you just like to hide like a coward all the time, perhaps in
real life as you do on the Internet?

Anthony Malleus from Ignis Ardens,
...

The 2 you mention Neil simply don't want their comfortable existence jeopardized. The one calling himself Baldwin isn't quite as stupid as he acts, but they and IA's poster-child for cognitive dissonance, Dawn Marie, generally act a lot like a certain belligerent Aussie. They see their cozy little world crumbling, and believe if the rest of us would just "go along to get along",
everything will turn out OK. So they try their hand at social engineering. One of these claims to have the inside track from +Williamson, but I find that claim to be ridiculously exaggerated based on among other things, on some private correspondence I became party to.
Another factor may be veiled threats given them in private, e.g., "if this disruptive behavior doesn't stop we'll probably have to close a few Mass centers, and this one is first on the list". That trick usually works well on weaker personae.

Yes, I think you're right. There seemed to be a lot of stuff going-on behind the scenes. Even "fat Max" threatened them. Its an old established forum with a lot of "history". Some people expect them to always bow down in respect to Menzingen.

John Grace · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2012, 12:33:54 PM »

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10449&st=100

Quote

Nemmersdorf is now suspended for seven days and on a last warning.

DON'T PUSH YOU LUCK!

This post has been edited by Gregorio Sarto on Aug 11 2012, 02:49 PM

Fair play to Hollingsworh for stating the following.

Quote

Nemmersdorf is suspended? This is a joke, isn't it? If not, suspended for what? I don't sit in front of my monitor all like apparently some of you do. So I may have missed something. Please explain. Thank you. I've got a deck to revarnish.

Nemmersdorf has my full support. It's worse Ignis Ardens is getting if members are suspended like this.

Clelia · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2012, 12:46:08 PM »

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Mr. Baldwin from Ignis Ardens,

Why do you enjoy hiding in your little cave over there at IA? Do you have the
courage of your convictions? Are you willing to set foot into a real forum of
discussion, or do you just like to hide like a coward all the time, perhaps in
real life as you do on the Internet?

Anthony Malleus from Ignis Ardens,
...

The 2 you mention Neil simply don't want their comfortable existence jeopardized. The one calling himself Baldwin isn't quite as stupid as he acts, but they and IA's poster-child for cognitive dissonance, Dawn Marie, generally act a lot like a certain belligerent Aussie. They see their cozy little world crumbling, and believe if the rest of us would just "go along to get along",
everything will turn out OK. So they try their hand at social engineering. One of these claims to have the inside track from +Williamson, but I find that claim to be ridiculously exaggerated based on among other things, on some private correspondence I became party to.
Another factor may be veiled threats given them in private, e.g., "if this disruptive behavior doesn't stop we'll probably have to close a few Mass centers, and this one is first on the list". That trick usually works well on weaker personae.

I colored the particular quote in question, and so I ask:
Just what exactly, would that ridiculous, exaggerated claim be? Would you care to elaborate, or are you also hiding behind your "own little world?"

Thank you.

John Grace · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2012, 12:51:24 PM »

The suspension of Nemmersdorf is strange because Nemmersdorf asked Sarto

Quote

AGAIN, THESE ACCUSATIONS ARE BLATANT LIES!

Have YOU read the book, Benoît XVI et les Traditionalistes, you mentioned?

Then, whoever you are, petit rigolo, please, quote the exact passage in the book, where Fr Celier is alleged to FAVOUR the Pipaul mass.

I am also waiting for Sarto to do the same: prove that Fr Celier FAVOURS the Pipaul mass/reform of the reform, by quoting the text, please!

'counterrevolutionary' replies and not Gregorio Sarto.

Quote

1) Please quit calling me names. You don't have the right to do it, whoever you are.

2) I won't quote any passage where Fr. Celier favours the pipaule mass, since I didn't state so in my comment.

3) You ask for the exact passage in the book, and you don't provide the exact passage where I am alleged lied? Which accusations are blatant lies?

Where did Nemmersdorf call people names and has Gregorio Sarto provided evidence that Fr Celier favours the "pipaule mass"?

I have no reason to doubt Fr Celier and the references are very clear in his book.

John Grace · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2012, 12:52:36 PM »

Quote

Here is the text refering to the Pipaul or Pipaule mass:

OP (Olivier Pichon): At the end of this possible process of traditionalization of the new liturgy that you imagine .... do you think Rome will wish to remove the traditional liturgy in favor of this "new liturgy traditionalized"? Or will the two liturgies live side by side permanently?

GC (G. Celier): It is impossible to say with any certainty what will be the state of the liturgy in fifty or a hundred years. I think and hope that the traditional liturgy will continue to grow and reclaim the largest area possible. It is for this reason that we fight, because the traditional Mass is the treasure of the Church. On the other hand, if, as we have imagined, the new liturgy harvests the riches of the traditional liturgy – resulting in the "Mass pipaule" ( a mixture of the rite of St Pius V and of Paul VI) – it will probably also have a number of followers. Nevertheless, the ultra-liberal celebration of the new liturgy will continue its decline. We will, therefore, find ourselves, when it happens, in a unique and complex situation. What will happen then? I do not know. But I cannot imagine that this spiritual treasure which is the traditional liturgy will cease to be celebrated: firstly, there will always be some people attached to this ceremony (I even hope that there will be a great number of them, and why not the majority?) and secondly, its suppression would be an irretrievable loss for the Church.

Abbé Grégoire Celier, Benoît XVI et les Traditionalistes, p. 201

(Still waiting for your quotes.....!)

Nemmersdorf · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2012, 03:26:53 PM »

I never had a warning.

I posted that I was told that Bishop Williamson had never heard about some private revelation posted on IA by "Marie-Elisabeth" on the thread about Fr Chazal.

Next thing, I was suspended.

Quote from: John Grace

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10449&st=100
Quote
Nemmersdorf is now suspended for seven days and on a last warning.

DON'T PUSH YOU LUCK!

This post has been edited by Gregorio Sarto on Aug 11 2012, 02:49 PM

Fair play to Hollingsworh for stating the following.

Quote
Nemmersdorf is suspended? This is a joke, isn't it? If not, suspended for what? I don't sit in front of my monitor all like apparently some of you do. So I may have missed something. Please explain. Thank you. I've got a deck to revarnish.

Nemmersdorf has my full support. It's worse Ignis Ardens is getting if members are suspended like this.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2012, 04:41:15 PM »

Quote from: Clelia

Quote from: ultrarigorist

inside track from +Williamson, but I find that claim to be ridiculously exaggerated based on among other things, on some private correspondence I became party to.

I colored the particular quote in question, and so I ask:
Just what exactly, would that ridiculous, exaggerated claim be? Would you care to elaborate, or are you also hiding behind your "own little world?"

Thank you.

One of them was this "private revelation" which +W and +F were supposedly both aware of. Another was a supposed letter from +F to +W about 10mos ago offering to make everything right between them or some such nonsense. This party's M.O. involves challenging people into "just ask him yourself". It looks good posted on a forum BUT the reality is somewhat different....
Which I think is why this one intermittently drops off IA for a month or so, then returns with the same story anew.

Wessex · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2012, 01:23:44 PM »

Crunch time for Ignis has not yet arrived because Menzingen has not concluded a deal with Rome. Since the site is SSPX friendly (whatever that means these days) and most of the contributors are against a deal, I was waiting to see how this interesting situation would work out. However, seeing a so-called SV in John Lane use the site frequently for the purposes of promoting trust in the leadership, the site is becoming more incomprehensible each day.

John Grace · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2012, 03:01:29 PM »

The suspension of Nemmersdorf is obviously based on a personal dislike of Nemmersdorf by the moderating staff. There is really little point making a big deal about it and we should follow Clare's advice of not taking that forum seriously.

It's true Nemmersdorf received no warning. This suspension is very strange. As far as I can see Sarto was asked to cite evidence that Fr Celier favours the reform of the reform. Such evidence has not been provided.

I can't recall Ashmolean every being warned never mind being suspended or banned.