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Author Topic: Cebu City SSPX threatens withholding Sacraments  (Read 8237 times)

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Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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Cebu City SSPX threatens withholding Sacraments
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2014, 02:31:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: peterp
    Does/did the Church not refuse the sacraments to those organizations help bent on her destruction (i.e., members of communist parties and the freemasons)?

    So if the Society is subject to such attacks, attacks designed for her destruction, is she not allowed to refuse the sacraments to such perpetrators?

    The Church allows for the refusal of Holy Communion to both public and occult sinners (in certain circuмstances) and those who are not properly disposed.

    What is/are the specific issues here?


    You (like a lot of other people) seem to be mistaking the SSPX for "The Church" It is not "THE" Church. There are many different religious orders and societies/fraternities within the Catholic Church;  the SSPX is one of them. Only priests can actually belong to it- the faithful are merely adherents who attend their Masses and support them.  They (the SSPX superiors or priests) have no right to withhold Sacraments from faithful who are not in grave mortal sin. Disagreeing with the actions of the Superior General of an order to which one does not even belong (and thus has no authority over you) doesn't qualify as a mortal sin. Nor do they have the right  (jurisdiction) to impose a sort of de facto  "excommunication" the people who attend their chapels. If I have misstated this, then I will accept correction.

    Also, when you say that 'the Society has been subject to attacks designed for her destruction"- ( I am assuming you mean by the Resistance) then you are mistaken. The Resistance priests and laity do not wish to destroy the SSPX, but rather to prevent it from the suicidal straying from the course of its founder into the lap of an unconverted Rome. If the SSPX  sinks, it will not be because of the Resistance, but rather because the Superiors refused to heed the alarms coming from the Resistance which warn of the impending iceberg.


    Offline trento

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    Cebu City SSPX threatens withholding Sacraments
    « Reply #31 on: September 06, 2014, 09:09:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    Quote from: peterp
    Does/did the Church not refuse the sacraments to those organizations help bent on her destruction (i.e., members of communist parties and the freemasons)?

    So if the Society is subject to such attacks, attacks designed for her destruction, is she not allowed to refuse the sacraments to such perpetrators?

    The Church allows for the refusal of Holy Communion to both public and occult sinners (in certain circuмstances) and those who are not properly disposed.

    What is/are the specific issues here?


    You (like a lot of other people) seem to be mistaking the SSPX for "The Church" It is not "THE" Church. There are many different religious orders and societies/fraternities within the Catholic Church;  the SSPX is one of them. Only priests can actually belong to it- the faithful are merely adherents who attend their Masses and support them.  They (the SSPX superiors or priests) have no right to withhold Sacraments from faithful who are not in grave mortal sin. Disagreeing with the actions of the Superior General of an order to which one does not even belong (and thus has no authority over you) doesn't qualify as a mortal sin. Nor do they have the right  (jurisdiction) to impose a sort of de facto  "excommunication" the people who attend their chapels. If I have misstated this, then I will accept correction.

    Also, when you say that 'the Society has been subject to attacks designed for her destruction"- ( I am assuming you mean by the Resistance) then you are mistaken. The Resistance priests and laity do not wish to destroy the SSPX, but rather to prevent it from the suicidal straying from the course of its founder into the lap of an unconverted Rome. If the SSPX  sinks, it will not be because of the Resistance, but rather because the Superiors refused to heed the alarms coming from the Resistance which warn of the impending iceberg.

    This is making a mountain out of a molehill. If you go to any church to distribute literature hoping the faithful there to leave that church and go to the Resistance chapel instead, is there any surprise why you wouldn't be welcomed?

    As far as I know, those who attend Resistance chapels and SSPX chapels just for Mass and for the sacraments are not denied the sacraments, at least in Asia. Only the troublemakers are, simple as that.


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Cebu City SSPX threatens withholding Sacraments
    « Reply #32 on: September 06, 2014, 01:53:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: trento
    Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
    Quote from: peterp
    Does/did the Church not refuse the sacraments to those organizations help bent on her destruction (i.e., members of communist parties and the freemasons)?

    So if the Society is subject to such attacks, attacks designed for her destruction, is she not allowed to refuse the sacraments to such perpetrators?

    The Church allows for the refusal of Holy Communion to both public and occult sinners (in certain circuмstances) and those who are not properly disposed.

    What is/are the specific issues here?


    You (like a lot of other people) seem to be mistaking the SSPX for "The Church" It is not "THE" Church. There are many different religious orders and societies/fraternities within the Catholic Church;  the SSPX is one of them. Only priests can actually belong to it- the faithful are merely adherents who attend their Masses and support them.  They (the SSPX superiors or priests) have no right to withhold Sacraments from faithful who are not in grave mortal sin. Disagreeing with the actions of the Superior General of an order to which one does not even belong (and thus has no authority over you) doesn't qualify as a mortal sin. Nor do they have the right  (jurisdiction) to impose a sort of de facto  "excommunication" the people who attend their chapels. If I have misstated this, then I will accept correction.

    Also, when you say that 'the Society has been subject to attacks designed for her destruction"- ( I am assuming you mean by the Resistance) then you are mistaken. The Resistance priests and laity do not wish to destroy the SSPX, but rather to prevent it from the suicidal straying from the course of its founder into the lap of an unconverted Rome. If the SSPX  sinks, it will not be because of the Resistance, but rather because the Superiors refused to heed the alarms coming from the Resistance which warn of the impending iceberg.

    This is making a mountain out of a molehill. If you go to any church to distribute literature hoping the faithful there to leave that church and go to the Resistance chapel instead, is there any surprise why you wouldn't be welcomed?

    As far as I know, those who attend Resistance chapels and SSPX chapels just for Mass and for the sacraments are not denied the sacraments, at least in Asia. Only the troublemakers are, simple as that.


    You may think it is "making a mountain out of a molehill", but then you aren't the one being denied Sacraments out of spite. I'm pretty sure that it isn't a "molehill" to some of the people here. At least once this has included Last Rites. So long as Mass is not being disrupted there is no reason to deny any Catholic attendance. Even the worst of sinners such as murderers or abortionists are not denied entry to Mass!  And unless they are in mortal sin- and publicly known to be so, as to cause scandal- a Catholic is not to be denied Sacraments. (To do so is a mortal sin on the part of the priest, if I am not mistaken.)  I don't think supplying pertinent and truthful information to other Catholics qualifies. I understand the complaint about handing out the info in the chapels- but what about off the property? On the street, in homes, private conversations, the internet, snailmail? (Or hacked email, for that matter.) They don't just object to handing out info at the chapel, but rather want to keep all the faithful totally in the dark. To try to squash the ability of the faithful to receive important information even outside of their chapels, and to smear and  persecute those who offer it is a cult-like behavior. Those who supply the info are not trying to convert their chapel-members to another religion, but rather allow them the opportunity to examine the facts;`to make sure that they remain on the proper course and are not being misled.


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Cebu City SSPX threatens withholding Sacraments
    « Reply #33 on: September 06, 2014, 02:20:43 PM »
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  • Above reference to "hacked email" referred to the pending criminal case in France against the SSPX for hacking into the email of a resistance priest, I did not mean that the resistance has or should hack in order to send info- thought I should post a clarification in case there was confusion---   :reporter: