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Author Topic: Catechism Class  (Read 10319 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Catechism Class
« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2018, 04:57:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Samuel on January 22, 2018, 09:37:06 PM
    Hypothesis : a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

    Catholics should not base their actions upon a mere hypothesis that may or may not one day be confirmed by the Church.

    It is also interesting that I could not trace that quote to it's original source. I would have liked to verify the author, the translation and the context.
    It comes from a text written by Archbishop Lefebrve in Econe, "Answers to Various Burning Questions".  I can't seem to locate the text online.  It is interesting that it's not on the SSPX website though.     
    The issue being discussed here wasn't sedevacantism per se.  It was about ABL and what he said/wrote about it.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Samuel

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #106 on: January 25, 2018, 02:45:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on January 23, 2018, 04:57:31 AM
    It comes from a text written by Archbishop Lefebrve in Econe, "Answers to Various Burning Questions".  I can't seem to locate the text online.  It is interesting that it's not on the SSPX website though.    
    The issue being discussed here wasn't sedevacantism per se.  It was about ABL and what he said/wrote about it.
    That's why I would have liked to verify whether it was indeed the Archbishop who wrote that quote, and if he did, whether the translation is correct, and if it is, whether the context may be important. I have seen some sedes happily "construct" quotes by the Archbishop before, trying to make him say the opposite of what he really said.
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    Offline PG

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #107 on: February 14, 2018, 04:24:26 PM »
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    • I don't think this was yet posted.  But, I did not read back to check.

    Here is denzinger # 695 - "All these sacraments are dispensed in three ways, namely, by things as the matter, by words as the form, and by the person of the minister conferring the sacrament with the intention of doing as the church does: if any of these is lacking the sacrament is not fulfilled."
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    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #108 on: February 14, 2018, 04:50:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 22, 2018, 10:41:37 AM
    I completely agree with this.  If you ask people if they believe with the certainty of faith that Francis is pope, very few would agree that they do.

    How do you quantify that notion? Did you go to Novus Ordo La La Land and take an anonymous survey?
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    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #109 on: February 14, 2018, 05:02:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on January 20, 2018, 11:33:31 AM
    If you want to call "valid minister" #4, which is generally assumed, you also need to have a #5 "recipient must be in the right state"  which is also assumed.

    Wouldn't "recipient must be in the right state" fall under Intention, just as the priest conferring the Sacrament must fall under Intention?
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    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #110 on: February 14, 2018, 05:25:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Croix de Fer on February 14, 2018, 05:02:54 PM
    Wouldn't "recipient must be in the right state" fall under Intention, just as the priest conferring the Sacrament must fall under Intention?
    Both are assumed.  They do not fall under anything.
    Mr. Johnson is incorrect to claim there are 4.
    My point was, if he claims a #4 then he must claim a #5.
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    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Catechism Class
    « Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 05:26:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on January 22, 2018, 03:02:01 PM


    Except this is about the valid confection of a sacrament, not valid reception.

    .
    That wasn't in your question:

    "The three criteria necessary for a valid sacrament are.."
    .
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    Notice: your clarification has been ignored. Interesting.
    .
    Yes. 
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