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Author Topic: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division  (Read 2202 times)

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Offline Mr G

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Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
« on: October 10, 2017, 01:27:18 PM »
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  • From http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/ which was extracted from: https://rcf.fr/actualite/rapprochement-avec-rome-pour-mgr-ricard-la-fraternite-saint-pie-x-va-devoir-faire-un-choix

    A St. Pius X Fraternity divided by the approach to Rome

     
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     "I feel there is a debate in the bosom of the Fraternity.  Not everyone agrees.  I have met with a certain number of priests of the Fraternity who truly desire an agreement with Rome.  Others do not want it at all. "

     "And the personality of Pope Francis is perceived ambivalently.  Before some of his gestures have said "very well".  But other of these gestures and words - especially religious freedom and migrants - irritate a certain number of members who remain reticent. "

     "It is now up to those responsible, especially Msgr. Fellay, to say what they want.  Next year they will have a great chapter that will guide the future.  It will be a decisive moment to know if they return to communion or take the other route. "

     "It is true that Bishop Fellay has hardened a little [the Cardinal refers to Correctio] .  But we know that other times Msgr. Fellay has alternated moments from a somewhat hard position with moments when he was more open.  We'll see".



    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 11:59:05 PM »
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  • I think we should be praying for the SSPX to regain its sanity before, during, and after the chapter meeting next year. Sanity meaning they would return to opposing modernism at every turn.


    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 07:32:14 AM »
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  • It never opposed modernism at every turn. That is why so many came and went. It always had this ultimate aim of securing a comfortable niche within the pantheon on terms decided by a very small band of clerics with its own take on tradition. Lefebvre's brand was always there if modified somewhat after his death.

    The so-called SSPX division if it exists must be remarkable for its invisibility. The Society has been successful in expelling (or castrating) those Bp. Fellay once said he did not want in "his church". If Menzingen has hardened towards Rome, it will be be part of this familiar game it likes to play and not because of any pressure from the rank and file. 

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 08:06:19 AM »
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  • It never opposed modernism at every turn. That is why so many came and went. It always had this ultimate aim of securing a comfortable niche within the pantheon on terms decided by a very small band of clerics with its own take on tradition. Lefebvre's brand was always there if modified somewhat after his death.

    The so-called SSPX division if it exists must be remarkable for its invisibility. The Society has been successful in expelling (or castrating) those Bp. Fellay once said he did not want in "his church". If Menzingen has hardened towards Rome, it will be be part of this familiar game it likes to play and not because of any pressure from the rank and file.
    Your first sentence is a factual predicate to the rest.  And again, it is right to observe the pattern of appearing to hold firm to principal with the inevitable recession to "openess". It is, as it has been from the beginning.  Bp.Fellay is an ambitious man, and he brooks no challenges to his reign or power. Bp. Williamson was the most obvious example of that, but any other voices which have been raised against his vision have been silenced or removed as well.
    These outsiders such as this Cardinal and others do not see the long standing familiar pattern of advance and retreat, which has alway been present in the SSPX. They think that these are actually changes in attitudes and position.
    Its opposition, or resistance as it is now called, has always been mainly in defiant or dissenting words, while they quietly go about doining what they want to do under the cover of the crisis/necessity blanket.
    That the conciliar authorities have tolerated and even treated with them for so long is proof that they were never a serious threat to the Revolution, and in fact the SSPX's very moderated dissent has served to give credibility and legitimacy to the conciliar bandits for decades.
    It follows that if there is such strong opposition among some of its priests they would be principled enough to leave straight away, but that is not what happens as they were formed with the stencil of non-threatening dissent which is a hallmark of the parent sect.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #4 on: October 13, 2017, 01:04:46 PM »
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  • After years of hearing the news about "the relations" SSPX and the Vatican II religion I have sometimes allowed it to enter one ear and go out the other. That's about as far as it goes.

    From long experience, I do not believe Menzingen, and from short observation I do not follow the Resistance, their (Menzingen and the Resistance) is a fight between brothers.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #5 on: October 13, 2017, 01:54:58 PM »
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  • After years of hearing the news about "the relations" SSPX and the Vatican II religion I have sometimes allowed it to enter one ear and go out the other. That's about as far as it goes.

    From long experience, I do not believe Menzingen, and from short observation I do not follow the Resistance, their (Menzingen and the Resistance) is a fight between brothers.
    That is a correct assessment as they only differ on when and how to deal with the Romans, but their views and policies are the same in relation to the conciliar entity and its non-existent level of orthodoxy.
    "Recognize us as we are because we recognize you as you are"

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 10:03:04 AM »
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  • "... and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Now since this comes from the Truth Himself, why would anyone remain in a divided house?

    Does a house divided against itself, that surely will not stand, mean it is wrong house to be in?
    Today the Catholic Church is in chaos, totally divided. The shepherd (the pope)  is struck and the sheep are divided. I do not expect unity, just a valid priest. Despite what I wrote, I still go to an SSPX chapel, and would go to a Resistance chapel and a sede chapel. They're all teachers of quasi-universal salvation (salvation without belief in Christ and the Holy Trinity), while I am a strict EENSer, I believe dogmas are the final word and so should be believed as they are written, so, if I was to stick to my guns, I would not to any chapel. That is why all I seek is a valid priest.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 10:54:18 AM »
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  • Today the Catholic Church is in chaos, totally divided. The shepherd (the pope)  is struck and the sheep are divided. I do not expect unity, just a valid priest. Despite what I wrote, I still go to an SSPX chapel, and would go to a Resistance chapel and a sede chapel. They're all teachers of quasi-universal salvation (salvation without belief in Christ and the Holy Trinity), while I am a strict EENSer, I believe dogmas are the final word and so should be believed as they are written, so, if I was to stick to my guns, I would not to any chapel. That is why all I seek is a valid priest.
    That is roughly where I stand as well. Remember that almost all of the sede Bishops have origins in SSPX ordinations, so it is not surprising that the weak theology of salvation by ignorance and good will was imparted to all of these Bishops in their formation and now passed on to their ordinands.  That is the boat we are in, and as such simply finding a valid priest for reception of the sacraments is the logical policy, but without, of course a level of involvement in which you would risk adopting thier ideas about salvation.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 02:34:14 PM »
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  • That is roughly where I stand as well. Remember that almost all of the sede Bishops have origins in SSPX ordinations, so it is not surprising that the weak theology of salvation by ignorance and good will was imparted to all of these Bishops in their formation and now passed on to their ordinands.  That is the boat we are in, and as such simply finding a valid priest for reception of the sacraments is the logical policy, but without, of course a level of involvement in which you would risk adopting thier ideas about salvation.
    To me, their "ideas" about salvation are a warning to stay on guard, their huge gaping wound makes me skeptical of anything they teach which does not sound right. Whatever they teach that does not sound right, I have to further research. That is the reality of our times. Until we have a real shepherd pope to lead the clergy, we will remain in this situation.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 02:47:04 PM »
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  • Your first sentence is a factual predicate to the rest.  And again, it is right to observe the pattern of appearing to hold firm to principal with the inevitable recession to "openess". It is, as it has been from the beginning.  Bp.Fellay is an ambitious man, and he brooks no challenges to his reign or power. Bp. Williamson was the most obvious example of that, but any other voices which have been raised against his vision have been silenced or removed as well.

    These outsiders such as this Cardinal and others do not see the long standing familiar pattern of advance and retreat, which has alway been present in the SSPX. They think that these are actually changes in attitudes and position.

    Its opposition, or resistance as it is now called, has always been mainly in defiant or dissenting words, while they quietly go about doining what they want to do under the cover of the crisis/necessity blanket.

    That the conciliar authorities have tolerated and even treated with them for so long is proof that they were never a serious threat to the Revolution, and in fact the SSPX's very moderated dissent has served to give credibility and legitimacy to the conciliar bandits for decades.
    It follows that if there is such strong opposition among some of its priests they would be principled enough to leave straight away, but that is not what happens as they were formed with the stencil of non-threatening dissent which is a hallmark of the parent sect.
    You have perfectly described the "duck walk" of the liberals -- two steps forward and one step backward -- a deceiving diabolical dance, which is always progressing toward modernism.

    If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Cato

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    Re: Cardinal Ricard speaks about the SSPX division
    « Reply #10 on: October 17, 2017, 12:21:46 AM »
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  • The Society is in a perfect place.  By all accounts - even Rome's - it possesses all the necessities to save souls.  Baptism, masses, confession, last rites, even marriage (more or less). 

    I think Bishop Fellay can afford to criticize Rome and avoid any agreement indefinitely - or at least until there comes a need to ordain additional bishops in 10 years or so.