Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: Cardinal Newman's last laugh  (Read 645 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Incredulous

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4778
  • Reputation: +5562/-449
  • Gender: Male
Cardinal Newman's last laugh
« on: August 03, 2019, 07:00:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Could Card. Newman have been stuffed inside St. John's coffin ? ;)




    The Empty Tomb: Cardinal Newman’s last laugh

    Posted by David Gibson




    Was Cardinal Newman gay? Or (as the joke has it) simply divine? That was the controversy that dominated the dust-up over exhuming John Henry Newman, the great nineteenth-century English convert to Rome, in order to move his body to a more suitable location for veneration–that in anticipation of his beatification (the penultimate step to canonization) by Pope Benedict XVI next year.

    Newman, you see, had requested–indeed insisted, with his final breath–that he be buried in a grave at Rednal Hill cemetery outside Birmingham with Ambrose St. John, a fellow Oratorian who Newman described as the great love of his life. “I wish, with all my heart, to be buried in Fr Ambrose St John’s grave — and I give this as my last, my imperative will,” he wrote, “This I confirm and insist on.”

    Many today thus insisted that removing Newman’s body from the grave would violate his last wishes as well as what they saw as a relationship that was more than Platonic–hence Newman was, improbably, becoming a gay icon of the twenty-first century. Andrew Sullivan–a gay English Catholic–“dished” on this argument here.

    Not surprisingly, that argument sparked more than a bit of debate, and strong counter-reactions. Those reactions may say more about a 21st-century American culture that is hinky about male friendships than it does about Newman. Still, theirs was an especially intense bond. Here is the English Catholic journalist Austen Ivereigh at “In All Things” on the relationship between Newman and St. John:
    Quote

    The two men loved each other deeply, had a life-long friendship, and lived together. And since Newman’s death in 1890 they have remained in the same grave in Rednal, about eight miles from Cardinal Newman’s house in Edgbaston, outside Birmingham.
     In 1854 Newman wrote: “We have bought (I trust) a burying place — under the Lickey Hills, just about eight miles off — it is a most beautiful spot. . . . We are going to build a cottage there and ultimately a mortuary chapel.” They share a tombstone with the inscription “out of shadows and phantasms into the truth” etched across it.

     Newman wrote after the death of St John in 1875: “I have ever thought no bereavement was equal to that of a husband’s or a wife’s, but I feel it difficult to believe that any can be greater, or anyone’s sorrow greater, than mine.”
     The Cardinal -a hyper-sensitive, even delicate man — had intense friendships of the sort common in that age, especially in all-male bastions such as the clergy and Oxford.

    But Ivereigh’s judgment that it is a bit much to consider the two men as a “couple” or “partners” in the modern, homosexual sense, seems about right, even if one must also consider the possibility that they were homosexually-inclined men who shared an intense if chaste relationship.

    Is there anything wrong with that? A Newman biographer, Father Ian Ker, seemed to think so, penning a piece in the Vatican newspaper (CNS story here) in which he blamed the “homosexual lobby” for stirring up controversy (actually the first hurdle was a British law barring exhumation; that was eventually waived) and echoing a favorite line that celibacy can only be a sacrifice for a heterosexual not a homosexual because only a straight man is giving up marriage with a woman. “The only reason for which celibacy could be a sacrifice was that Newman, as every normal man, wanted to get married,” Ker said. Ker seemed on firmer ground with this point:

    Quote
    Nowadays there is no concept of friendship. In those days they had a concept of a loving friendship we have lost today,” he said.
     “You no longer can say you love your friend,” he said. “But in those days people spoke quite openly of their love for their friends. Is this going to get to the point when fathers no longer can say they love their daughters? It is quite horrendous the implications of this nonsense.”
    Alas, last week in a Geraldo moment (remember the safe opening from the wreck of the Titanic?) the gravediggers opened the tomb and…nothing! According to a church statement:
    Quote
    “Brass, wooden and cloth artefacts from Cardinal Newman’s coffin were found. However there were no remains of the body of John Henry Newman. An expectation that Cardinal Newman had been buried in a lead-lined coffin proved to be unfounded. In the view of the medical and health professionals in attendance, burial in a wooden coffin in a very damp site makes this kind of total decomposition of the body unsurprising. The absence of physical remains in the grave does not affect the progress of Cardinal Newman’s cause in Rome.”
    It does quash the prospect of relics, at least of the first class. And what of the gay controversy? Austen Ivereigh again has the best epitaph to the whole affair:
    Quote

    There is something very Newmanesque about the end to this story. A shy, delicate, bookish man, he was never at ease with some of the aesthetic and ritual habits of the Church to which he spectacularly converted in 1844. The fact that there will be no lying-in-state, no marble sarcophagus to venerate, and no relics to distribute (beyond the few locks of hair that exist), seems hugely appropriate.
     And how apt, in retrospect, seem the words of the epitaph which Newman and St John chose for their tomb: Ex umbris et imaginibus in veritatem — “Out of shadows and phantasms into Truth.”


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Augustinus21

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 37
    • Reputation: +10/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 07:08:02 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Cardinal Newman was a very learned and holy man


    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4778
    • Reputation: +5562/-449
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 02:52:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is interesting:

    Remains

    Newman's grave was opened on 2 October 2008, with the intention of moving any remains to a tomb inside Birmingham Oratory for their more convenient veneration as relics during Newman's consideration for sainthood; however, his wooden coffin was found to have disintegrated and no bones were found. A representative of Fathers of the Birmingham Oratory alleged that this was because the coffin was wooden and the burial took place at a damp site. Contemporary sources show that the coffin was covered with a softer type of soil than the clay marl of the grave site. Forensic expert John Hunter, from the University of Birmingham, tested soil samples from near the grave and said that total disappearance of a body was unlikely over that timescale. He said that extreme conditions which could remove bone would also have removed the coffin handles, which were extant.


    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Augustinus21

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 37
    • Reputation: +10/-10
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 03:00:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This is interesting:

    Remains

    Newman's grave was opened on 2 October 2008, with the intention of moving any remains to a tomb inside Birmingham Oratory for their more convenient veneration as relics during Newman's consideration for sainthood; however, his wooden coffin was found to have disintegrated and no bones were found. A representative of Fathers of the Birmingham Oratory alleged that this was because the coffin was wooden and the burial took place at a damp site. Contemporary sources show that the coffin was covered with a softer type of soil than the clay marl of the grave site. Forensic expert John Hunter, from the University of Birmingham, tested soil samples from near the grave and said that total disappearance of a body was unlikely over that timescale. He said that extreme conditions which could remove bone would also have removed the coffin handles, which were extant.


    That doesn’t really mean anything. The explanation given seems to suffice 

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4778
    • Reputation: +5562/-449
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 04:20:47 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
  • Cardinal Newman was a very learned and holy man

    I disagree little buddy and have Newman's own writings to prove his theology was holey... not holy.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4778
    • Reputation: +5562/-449
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 04:24:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • That doesn’t really mean anything. The explanation given seems to suffice

     It means other items in the coffin should have decomposed 100% as his body did and they didn't.

     It could mean his body was removed and is elsewhere.

     It means there are no relics of the newSaint... Deo gratias!
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline frignatius

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 8
    • Reputation: +3/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 02:22:46 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Actually there are some relics, admittedly they are rare, but some of his hairs were taken by the fathers of the oratory upon his death. I know they are venerated at the Birmingham oratory chapel of Cardinal Newman. One of my friends also possesses a certified hail relic of the cardinal. 

    The whole homosexual claim of the holy cardinal is absolutely evil, it is worldly and impure people imposing an impure reading over what was a chaste and good friendship, such re-reading of historical friendships is very common these days by people obsessed by impurity, probably because they look at impure images all day and their minds are soaked in base impurities. Hell is their home and that is where their wicked passions are leading them.

    I haven't studied all the cardinals writing and wouldn't comment personally on their orthodoxy, I will say that I have found his sermons very helpful and his stations of the cross are surely rightly esteemed as second only to St. Alphonsus himself.
    Extra Mariam Nulla Salus

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4778
    • Reputation: +5562/-449
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Cardinal Newman's last laugh
    « Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 06:31:44 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1


  • Good points Frignatius!

    The timing of the homosexual accusations was opportune for gay activists to exploit.

    However, I will never buy the defense that two Holy religious men, being buried Together is not a scandal.

    Homosexuality is deep within the corrupted British culture, the nation that made a pact with judaic finance to achieve the “British Empire”.  Of this culture, Cambridge had many seeds.

    Card. Newman’s strong criticisms of Pope Pius IX’s Syllabus of Errors, does not add up?   I cannot but think that the Cardinal was an early infiltrator within the Church.

    Preposterous you might say, but one could make a plausible argument that Hillaire Belloch was the same thing.

    90% of Belloch’s works seem inspiringly Catholic, yet he also supported the French Revolution, saying the King & Queen were rightfully prosecuted.  His works hit the market right as the 20th Century was bringing on the largest social upheavals in human history.

    Belloch was a Marrano and it is highly unlikely Newman is a Saint.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16