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Author Topic: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church  (Read 1153 times)

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Offline RomanCatholic1953

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Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
« on: August 29, 2020, 08:16:40 PM »
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    • Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre Will One Day Be Recognized as a Doctor of the Church: Was Prophetic

    https://catholicfamilynews.com/blog/2020/08/27/cardinal-archbishop-lefebvre-will-one-day-be-recognized-as-a-doctor-of-the-church-was-prophetic/
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    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #1 on: August 29, 2020, 08:43:32 PM »
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    • “I heard from a guy who heard from a guy...”
    :facepalm:
    This entire article is kinda silly.  I guess it’s a slow news week for CFN??  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #2 on: August 29, 2020, 09:00:45 PM »
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    • And then the article quotes Schneider on Lefebvre (a man who clearly does not understand him, if he believes Lefebvre would take a deal offered by the Pachamama Pope).

    Schneider is an obvious enemy of Tradition (i.e., a convinced conciliarist), but CFN looks to him for a few words of comfort as though they were Fellayists in need of such reassurances that they are Catholic??

    When CFN wants to interview Vigano on Lefebvre, I might get interested.

    But for the most part, I turned my back on CFN, when CFN turned its back on +Williamson in 2012 (for money).

    :facepalm:
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline poche

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #3 on: August 30, 2020, 03:42:59 AM »
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    • Have there been any miracles attributed to his intercession?  
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #4 on: August 30, 2020, 07:46:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on August 30, 2020, 03:42:59 AM
    Have there been any miracles attributed to his intercession?  
    Found this anonymous post in a 2013 thread:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/any-miracles-attributed-to-archbishop-lefebvre/


    “In a talk given by Bishop Fellay a long time ago (2000 AD?):

    At the funeral of Archbishop Lefebvre, a little child born with a cleft got away from his parents.  The child ran up to the coffin of Archbishop Lefebvre and kissed it.  When he returned to his parents, his cleft lip was gone!

    Bishop Fellay told more miracles, but his accent was very strong and hard to understand.  It has also been a long time since he told these stories.

    I do remember his asking the faithful to please send him docuмents backing up miracles by ABL's intercession.  

    Also, one of my friends told me that the French are (were?) very devoted to ABL and that he was able to obtain many miracles for them because of their devotion.”
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #5 on: August 30, 2020, 10:36:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 30, 2020, 07:46:55 AM
    Found this anonymous post in a 2013 thread:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/anonymous-posts-allowed/any-miracles-attributed-to-archbishop-lefebvre/


    “In a talk given by Bishop Fellay a long time ago (2000 AD?):

    At the funeral of Archbishop Lefebvre, a little child born with a cleft got away from his parents.  The child ran up to the coffin of Archbishop Lefebvre and kissed it.  When he returned to his parents, his cleft lip was gone!

    Bishop Fellay told more miracles, but his accent was very strong and hard to understand.  It has also been a long time since he told these stories.

    I do remember his asking the faithful to please send him docuмents backing up miracles by ABL's intercession.  

    Also, one of my friends told me that the French are (were?) very devoted to ABL and that he was able to obtain many miracles for them because of their devotion.”

    It would be nice to actually have some of these docuмented rather than just taking +Fellay's word for it ... get statements from the doctors, medical records, etc.

    I do believe that +Lefebvre will be canonized, but he wasn't any kind of Doctor.  Of course, the NO use the term Doctor loosely now, having made even St. Therese of Lisieux a Doctor.  EVERY SAINT has something to teach us about God, but that doesn't make them a Doctor.
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    Offline Ekim

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #6 on: August 30, 2020, 10:37:03 AM »
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    • Would love to see the SSPX release a booklet telling the story of miracles with photos (cleft/no cleft), and a letter from a Doctor or two simply stating there was no explanation for the change...not just  temporal miracles, but miraculous spiritual conversions too!

    All of this would be very edifying to the faithful!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #7 on: August 30, 2020, 10:38:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ekim on August 30, 2020, 10:37:03 AM
    Would love to see the SSPX release a booklet telling the story of miracles with photos (cleft/no cleft), and a letter from a Doctor or two simply stating there was no explanation for the change...not just  temporal miracles, but miraculous spiritual conversions too!

    All of this would be very edifying to the faithful!

    Right, these should not be that difficult to obtain.
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #8 on: August 30, 2020, 12:24:37 PM »
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    • A Doctor of the Church is, by definition, a saint who was a voluminous writer/preacher on morals and theology.  This isn't critical of +ABL, but his background wasn't theology, was it?  Did he even write 1 book?  I would classify him as a "missionary" type of saint, not a theologian.  St Francis of Assisi (one of the greatest saints ever) isn't a Doctor of the Church, but that has nothing to do with his sanctity, just his office/purpose in serving the Church.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #9 on: August 30, 2020, 12:39:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 30, 2020, 12:24:37 PM
    A Doctor of the Church is, by definition, a saint who was a voluminous writer/preacher on morals and theology.  This isn't critical of +ABL, but his background wasn't theology, was it?  Did he even write 1 book?  I would classify him as a "missionary" type of saint, not a theologian.  St Francis of Assisi (one of the greatest saints ever) isn't a Doctor of the Church, but that has nothing to do with his sanctity, just his office/purpose in serving the Church.

    Are you serious?

    You are a self-professed trad, and you don’t know even the most basic information about Lefebvre (yet don’t hesitate to declare he could not be a Doctor)?

    1) He wrote SEVERAL books;

    2) He held double doctorates in philosophy and theology (at a time when they were worth something);

    3) I think an excellent argument can be made for his writings meeting the level of Doctor (not for fine theological distinctions, as St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Alphonsus, but for being the primary opponent of modernism, as St. Dominic was against the Albigensians).

    4) But wherever you stand regarding #3, he certainly fits the textbook definition of “Confessor:”

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04215a.htm
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    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #10 on: August 30, 2020, 03:51:55 PM »
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    • No I didn’t know, which is why I asked the question.  
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #11 on: September 01, 2020, 11:45:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 30, 2020, 12:24:37 PM
    A Doctor of the Church is, by definition, a saint who was a voluminous writer/preacher on morals and theology.  This isn't critical of +ABL, but his background wasn't theology, was it?  Did he even write 1 book?  I would classify him as a "missionary" type of saint, not a theologian.  St Francis of Assisi (one of the greatest saints ever) isn't a Doctor of the Church, but that has nothing to do with his sanctity, just his office/purpose in serving the Church.
    Before Vatican II, he was archbishop of Daccar.  
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #12 on: September 02, 2020, 06:04:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche on August 30, 2020, 03:42:59 AM
    Have there been any miracles attributed to his intercession?  
    I think we should all pray for his intercession for you and all other trolls be “removed” from this forum
    :incense:
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #13 on: September 02, 2020, 06:08:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 30, 2020, 12:39:51 PM
    4) But wherever you stand regarding #3, he certainly fits the textbook definition of “Confessor:”

    Well, of course, but I do think Doctor is a huge stretch.  Sure, he wrote a couple of books, but many saints wrote some books.  These books have to be of a certain nature.

    And, to be perfectly frank, despite his personal sanctity and what he's done to preserve Tradition, Archbishop Lefebvre badly misfired regarding a couple of the key theological issues regarding the Crisis itself, in particular on the issue of ecclesiology and salvation outside the Church.  That position he articulated is the root cause error of all the subsequent Vatican II errors.  I would also talk about his promotion of R&R, but if you actually read what he wrote and what he said, he did not promote most of the erroneous principles held by modern R&R.
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    Offline John2020

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    Re: Cardinal-Archbishop Lefebvre One Day Will Be Recognized as Doctor of the Church
    « Reply #14 on: September 02, 2020, 06:29:35 AM »
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    • No, Archbishop Lefebvre was spot on regarding all these issues to do with ecclesiology. Vigano is the one with serious doctrinal problems.
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