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Author Topic: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"  (Read 19826 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
« Reply #165 on: August 11, 2023, 07:00:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 11, 2023, 06:56:05 AM
    Since Johnson keeps bloviating about this post, he's CLEARLY applying that principles concretely to the case of NO "Eucharistic miracles," citing the latter as an example of this principle.  Pathetic that Johnson thinks this "refutes" anything.

    Why don't you man up, and ask +Williamson if belief in private revelations is necessary to be a Catholic?

    Because you know he would call you an idiot for suggesting such a thing?

    Yes, that's surely it.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #166 on: August 11, 2023, 07:02:03 AM »
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #167 on: August 11, 2023, 07:04:48 AM »
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    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #168 on: August 11, 2023, 07:08:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 10, 2023, 08:18:31 PM
    So you're saying that Bishop Williamson is a liar?  He stated very concretely that it is "all about Eucharistic miracles" (as you put it) in terms of whether he'd give Father Hewko the Holy Oils, that denying the NO "miracles" means that he's not in the "same Church" that he's in and that it's tantamount to a sin against the Holy Ghost.
    All that time in the American seminary, and you don't know the man? Or perhaps you know him better than I. You may be right. At any rate, that is how it appears to me, but perhaps I am projecting my beliefs onto the good Bishop. 
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #169 on: August 11, 2023, 07:40:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 11, 2023, 06:54:02 AM
    Quit being such a toady to Bishop Williamson.  He'd be better served if people would disagree with him about some of his assertions than to be surrounded by a bunch of kiss-ups and brown-nosers.  Since you're in e-mail contact with him, be a man and question him regarding his statements to the effect that Catholics are required (as a condition of remaining in the Church) to believe in these miracles, and that it's tantamount to a sin against the Holy Ghost to not believe in them.  There's no precedent ever, anywhere, in Catholic theology backing these assertions.  Catholics are not required to believe in private revelations and miracles.  Period.  You can tell him that you understand that his problems with Father Hewko run deeper, but that those do not justify these false statements he's made.


    I agree with this…☝️☝️☝️

    Frankly, he lost me when he endorsed Valtorta.

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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #170 on: August 11, 2023, 07:49:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 10, 2023, 10:26:15 PM
    In other words, the dogmatic sede wants revenge for SSPXers and Resistance questioning the validity of Thuc consecrations, and means to get that ball rolling here and now.


    :facepalm:
    No, I am noting the clear hypocrisy on this forum by certain posters.  Many of those defending Bishop Williamson's comments would not have given any benefit of the doubt to the likes of Father Cekada or Bishop Sanborn. 

    However, I am trying to give the Bishop the benefit of the doubt regarding his comments rather than jump all over him.
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #171 on: August 11, 2023, 07:49:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on August 11, 2023, 07:40:03 AM

    I agree with this…☝️☝️☝️

    Frankly, he lost me when he endorsed Valtorta.

    A curious statement coming from a sede (i.e., you were never on board with him in the first place).

    How, then, could he have "lost you?"
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #172 on: August 11, 2023, 07:50:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on August 11, 2023, 07:49:18 AM
    No, I am noting the clear hypocrisy on this forum by certain posters.  Many of those defending Bishop Williamson's comments would not have given any benefit of the doubt to the likes of Father Cekada or Bishop Sanborn. 

    However, I am trying to give the Bishop the benefit of the doubt regarding his comments rather than jump all over him.

    Too bad you can't pass some of that prudent reserve along to Loudestmouth.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #173 on: August 11, 2023, 07:55:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on August 10, 2023, 09:34:39 PM
    My personal observation is that Bishop Williamson is going down the Thuc way. I fear that his love of dwelling on matters not related to the Faith he insists must be taken as the absolute truth is going to confuse souls even further. It's sad.
    What do you mean by this?  
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #174 on: August 11, 2023, 07:57:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 11, 2023, 07:49:48 AM
    A curious statement coming from a sede (i.e., you were never on board with him in the first place).

    How, then, could he have "lost you?"

    Sean, you should know I’m not a dogmatic sede. I’ve stated that many times in the past. I gained a lot of respect for him during his ouster from the SSPX for his steadfastness. 
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #175 on: August 11, 2023, 08:12:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on August 11, 2023, 07:57:02 AM
    Sean, you should know I’m not a dogmatic sede. I’ve stated that many times in the past. I gained a lot of respect for him during his ouster from the SSPX for his steadfastness.

    OK, fair enough.  I retract my previous comment.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #176 on: August 11, 2023, 09:10:30 AM »
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    • Ahhh, so +W does have a PR manager…it’s Sean, the revisionist, double-speak-interpreter.  Too bad +W didn’t talk to Sean BEFORE he created another theological snafu. 

    Seems +W and Sean are being pulled, inch by inch, to the left by their admiration for +Vigano, who has a doubtful consecration and who may argue (I’m not certain but it’s probable) that the new mass is “theoretically” ok. 

    +Vigano is right on many things but he’s also unspoken on many important topics.  I’d label him an indulter at this point.  A good but not a great thing.  He’s got a long way to go but seems +W has been prematurely enamored without him.  Thus, +W (who criticizes +Fellay and Co for cozying up to new-rome), is cozying up with +Vigano.  Both situations lead to indult-world, the land of compromise and (false) peace. 

    Let’s us all pray for +W.  He needs it.  The fight isn’t over.
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    Offline Gunter

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #177 on: August 11, 2023, 09:22:27 AM »
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    • So much good could be done in terms of restoration, if men would clear up the controversies by using tradition as the measure of discernment.   Doubtful rites, avoid them. Doubtful orders,  charitably repair the doubt.  This isn't high-school but with all the drama I'm getting mixed signals.   Grow up people. 
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #178 on: August 11, 2023, 09:23:34 AM »
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    • I wonder if Fr. Hewko gave a recent (or maybe not so recent) talk or sermon about New Mass miracles. There must be something that set off +W in this regard, to cause +W to require this stipulation about believing in New Mass miracles. I'm fine with believing that miracles could happen in a New Mass, as Sean's catechetical refutation points out that every time that transubstantiation occurs in the New Mass (when it does occur), a miracle takes place. That makes sense. There must be a further reason why +W is taking this stance of needing this requirement for holy oils being provided to the very uncharitable Fr. Hewko.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #179 on: August 11, 2023, 09:24:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 11, 2023, 09:10:30 AM
    Ahhh, so +W does have a PR manager…it’s Sean, the revisionist, double-speak-interpreter.  Too bad +W didn’t talk to Sean BEFORE he created another theological snafu. 

    Seems +W and Sean are being pulled, inch by inch, to the left by their admiration for +Vigano, who has a doubtful consecration and who may argue (I’m not certain but it’s probable) that the new mass is “theoretically” ok. 

    +Vigano is right on many things but he’s also unspoken on many important topics.  I’d label him an indulter at this point.  A good but not a great thing.  He’s got a long way to go but seems +W has been prematurely enamored without him.  Thus, +W (who criticizes +Fellay and Co for cozying up to new-rome), is cozying up with +Vigano.  Both situations lead to indult-world, the land of compromise and (false) peace. 

    Let’s us all pray for +W.  He needs it.  The fight isn’t over.

    Pax-

    Please do inform us once you have completed your prayers.
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