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Author Topic: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"  (Read 19761 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2023, 12:02:20 AM »
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    • I've long been put off by the political machinations among the Trad clergy.  I understand not necessarily working closely with individuals you have a serious difference with, but some of this stuff is over the top, and it was most ugly among the splinter groups from the SSPV.  If I'm Bishop Kelly and think I have valid orders while Bishop Dolan did not, the first thing I'd do is to offer them conditional consecration / ordination, and the same for various other priests floating around out there.  This is just ugly, and all these clerics need to realize that the Holy Orders were not given to them because they were so worthy (no man is worthy) and so that they could exert themselves, lord it over others, and use the Sacraments as weapons.  None of them have any jurisdiction or real authority in the Church.  Their only role is to ensure that the faithful are taken care of, especially with the Sacraments ... until such a time as God designs to restore the Church.  In other words, their Holy Orders were bestowed upon them not for their sakes but for the sakes of the faithful.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #46 on: August 09, 2023, 07:59:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miseremini on August 08, 2023, 07:21:55 PM
    One of the problems we have is that we've had too many PR managers putting things in nice pretty packages for us to accept.
    Give me a straight forward, blunt talking person any day:  someone who says what he means and means what he says.  Only when I know the raw facts can I draw an informed conclusion.
    +Williamson is from my generation when we spoke our minds and the truth as we knew it and let the chips fall where they may... then moved on.

    I agree. Speaking his mind is also what got him into trouble with the neo-SSPX, who don't like to say anything that might cause offense. I prefer Bp. Williamson's 'straight forward' style too. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #47 on: August 09, 2023, 11:00:59 AM »
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    • Maybe, but, as Sean suggested, he really wasn't "speaking his mind".  +Williamson had other reasons for not wanting to help out Father Hewko besides the stated reason of his not accepting NO Eucharistic miracles ... at least according to Sean's reading of it.  If that's the only reason, his stated reason, then I think many of us would have a problem with effectively dogmatizing something like miracles and private revelations.
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    Offline rosarytrad

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #48 on: August 09, 2023, 01:57:36 PM »
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    • I'm saddened for the faithful who might be deprived of the Holy Oils...

    In a sermon by Fr. Hewko, he said that if St. Therese the Little Flower were alive today, she'd go to Broadstairs and slap Bp. Williamson for endorsing the NO. Ha. 


    This whole situation is scuffed.
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    The mercies of the Lord I will sing for ever. - Ps. 88:2a
    St. Anthony of Padua, pray for us.
    St. John of God, pray for us.
    Our Lady of Guadalupe, mystical rose, make intercession for Holy Church.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #49 on: August 09, 2023, 02:14:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: rosarytrad on August 09, 2023, 01:57:36 PM
    I'm saddened for the faithful who might be deprived of the Holy Oils...

    In a sermon by Fr. Hewko, he said that if St. Therese the Little Flower were alive today, she'd go to Broadstairs and slap Bp. Williamson for endorsing the NO. Ha.


    This whole situation is scuffed.

    It doesn’t surprise me to hear Fr. Hewko blaspheme like that, and it saddens me that he makes his faithful suffer without oils, when a little humility would rectify the situation, but they appear to revel in self-inflicted injuries.

    Collectively, they’re the stupidest bunch in Traddieland, tolerating Pfeiffer/Pablo for 6-7 years, then painting themselves into the corner with Hewko (and even building a seminary despite having nobody to ordain them:A sure sign Hewko is destined for the episcopate).  

    Meanwhile, where did you get this nonsense about Williamson endorsing the Novus Ordo??
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Martius

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #50 on: August 09, 2023, 02:18:43 PM »
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    • The fact that Bishop Williamson still promotes Garabandal is baffling.  I understand that it was what converted him back when it was new, but now it is obvious that it is a false apparition.  Rejecting new mass miracles is the safer route, since were not obliged to believe private revelations.  As Ladislaus said, for them to be real, it would imply that God approves of the bogus ordo.
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    Offline rosarytrad

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #51 on: August 09, 2023, 02:41:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2023, 02:14:59 PM
    Meanwhile, where did you get this nonsense about Williamson endorsing the Novus Ordo??
    I'm not endorsing Fr. Hewko here. The point was to show how ridiculous all of this is.
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    The mercies of the Lord I will sing for ever. - Ps. 88:2a
    St. Anthony of Padua, pray for us.
    St. John of God, pray for us.
    Our Lady of Guadalupe, mystical rose, make intercession for Holy Church.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #52 on: August 09, 2023, 02:53:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: rosarytrad on August 09, 2023, 01:57:36 PM
    In a sermon by Fr. Hewko, he said that if St. Therese the Little Flower were alive today, she'd go to Broadstairs and slap Bp. Williamson for endorsing the NO. Ha.

    Do you agree with what Fr. Hewko has stated above? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline rosarytrad

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #53 on: August 09, 2023, 03:19:01 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 09, 2023, 02:53:11 PM
    Do you agree with what Fr. Hewko has stated above?
    No. I posted it because it illustrates the absurdity of thinking he can expect to receive favors from someone he's spoken about like this. I also think it's a wildly inappropriate comment to make re: a Saint.

    I disagree with Bp. W's position on NO miracles, and I dislike seeing +W not provide Holy Oils to him at the expense of the faithful, but despite my opinions, I understand why he wouldn't want to do this for Fr. Hewko.

    Have I made myself clear?
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    The mercies of the Lord I will sing for ever. - Ps. 88:2a
    St. Anthony of Padua, pray for us.
    St. John of God, pray for us.
    Our Lady of Guadalupe, mystical rose, make intercession for Holy Church.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #54 on: August 09, 2023, 03:50:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: rosarytrad on August 09, 2023, 03:19:01 PM
    No. I posted it because it illustrates the absurdity of thinking he can expect to receive favors from someone he's spoken about like this. I also think it's a wildly inappropriate comment to make re: a Saint.

    I disagree with Bp. W's position on NO miracles, and I dislike seeing +W not provide Holy Oils to him at the expense of the faithful, but despite my opinions, I understand why he wouldn't want to do this for Fr. Hewko.

    Have I made myself clear?

    Yes, you have at last made yourself clear. Thank you. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #55 on: August 09, 2023, 04:20:20 PM »
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    • He said what?  When and where?   Maybe he had the wrong Teresa?  
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #56 on: August 09, 2023, 04:43:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 08, 2023, 12:13:03 PM
    Agreed, but let us not forget who the one was that took it public.
    Who was it?  Not that it really matters!  
    They’ve tried talking it out and neither will budge.
    I have an entire career’s worth of dealing with such matters in 4-10 year old children.
    When it’s boys, the best thing to do is to have them duke it out under controlled conditions, boxing, wrestling.  Barring that possibility, choose another competitive physical activity like basketball, a running race, obstacle course, etc.  If that’s also impossible, set them to a physically demanding task like hauling crates, shelving books, scrubbing floors or toilets…Depending upon the ages and particular circuмstances, they can compete or work together against the clock.  Apply the treatment as needed.  
    :facepalm: I see potential for an exciting ‘Resistance’ fundraiser!  
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #57 on: August 09, 2023, 04:55:09 PM »
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    • I don't think that disagreements are all that uncommon among trads groups, or between trad groups. It's just that this one has been made public, presumably by someone who seems to have an ax to grind.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #58 on: August 09, 2023, 05:49:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 09, 2023, 04:55:09 PM
    I don't think that disagreements are all that uncommon among trads groups, or between trad groups. It's just that this one has been made public, presumably by someone who seems to have an ax to grind.
    Disagreements are 100% normal, an inevitable result of Original Sin.  God knew this so He appointed the Hierarchy and Magisterium to deal with them.   There’s no sin until there’s actual sin, souls are harmed.  Both Bp. W. and Fr. H. have taken it to the point where souls are being harmed.  They need to repent, deal with matter IN PRIVATE, and get on with it.  End of story.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"
    « Reply #59 on: August 09, 2023, 06:14:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Seraphina on August 09, 2023, 05:49:19 PM
    Disagreements are 100% normal, an inevitable result of Original Sin.  God knew this so He appointed the Hierarchy and Magisterium to deal with them.  There’s no sin until there’s actual sin, souls are harmed.  Both Bp. W. and Fr. H. have taken it to the point where souls are being harmed.  They need to repent, deal with matter IN PRIVATE, and get on with it.  End of story. 

    In all fairness to Bishop Williamson, it would appear that it was Father Hewko who published the e-mails from Bishop Williamson and that the Bishop had no intention to have them made public.
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