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Author Topic: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"  (Read 19828 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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  • If I were Bishop Williamson, I would have responded with an open letter that, "For the good of the faithful who depend upon you, I will grant your request for the Holy Oils, but this should not be construed as an endorsement by myself of your various theological positions."  I think that His Excellency should rise above the personal disagreements with Father Hewko for the sake of the faithful.

    At the same time, Fathers Pfeiffer and Hewko should also have kept their disagreements with Bishop Williamson much more civil than they ended up being.  It's obvious that the primary animus driving their hostility was Bishop Williamson's refusal to consecrate Father Pfeiffer and to endorse his seminary, and so various matters that should have been respectful disagreements transformed into hostile attacks, and Father Hewko was largely dragged along by Father Pfeiffer's stronger will.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • This also implies the converse, namely, that if Father Hewko would come around to accepting this "reality," then he might go ahead and reques the Holy Oils again.

    Precisely the argument which proves my first comment in this thread (ie., Williamson is merely telling Hewko to buzz off, by stipulating a condition he knows Hewko will not accept):

    Does anyone believe that Williamson would really give Hewko oils if the latter acknowledged that NOM miracles were possible?  

    Of course not.  

    There’s still several other statements, positions, and conditions Hewko would need to retract or amend before Williamson would agree to associate with him (eg., Hewko’s heretical notion that a well-disposed Novus Ordo communicant receives no increase of sanctifying grace at a valid Mass).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Online Ladislaus

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  • Precisely the argument which proves my first comment in this thread (ie., Williamson is merely telling Hewko to buzz off, by stipulating a condition he knows Hewko will not accept):

    Does anyone believe that Williamson would really give Hewko oils if the latter acknowledged that NOM miracles were possible? 

    Of course not. 

    There’s still several other statements, positions, and conditions Hewko would need to retract or amend before Williamson would agree to associate with him (eg., Hewko’s heretical notion that a well-disposed Novus Ordo communicant receives no increase of sanctifying grace at a valid Mass).

    OK, but that seems like he's playing proverbial "mind games" there and he should just be more transparent.  "I'm not inclined to give you the Holy Oils for reasons A, B, C".  When this letter gets out, it does make it sound like he's turning belief in the NO Eucharistic miracles into a dogmatic necessity that disqualifies someone from being in the same Church he's in.  He didn't really articulate this well.

    Offline rosarytrad

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  • Can traditional Catholics receive an increase of sanctifying grace there too? :laugh1:
    The mercies of the Lord I will sing for ever. - Ps. 88:2a
    St. Anthony of Padua, pray for us.
    St. John of God, pray for us.
    Our Lady of Guadalupe, mystical rose, make intercession for Holy Church.

    Offline Catholicman

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  • Bishop Williamson is simply asking F. Hewko to accept physical realities and the impossibility of certain things. 

    Fr. Hewko can easily draft a statement saying that he accepts these realities while saying it is a mystery to him as to why God would do it. 


    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • OK, but that seems like he's playing proverbial "mind games" there and he should just be more transparent.  "I'm not inclined to give you the Holy Oils for reasons A, B, C".  When this letter gets out, it does make it sound like he's turning belief in the NO Eucharistic miracles into a dogmatic necessity that disqualifies someone from being in the same Church he's in.  He didn't really articulate this well.

    That the same Fr. Hewko, who tells the world to have nothing to do with Williamson, would have the effrontery to request oils from him, pretty much guaranteed a response like he received.

    In fact, it was so predictable, I might wonder if receiving such a response was premeditated.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

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  • Bishop Williamson is simply asking F. Hewko to accept physical realities and the impossibility of certain things.

    Fr. Hewko can easily draft a statement saying that he accepts these realities while saying it is a mystery to him as to why God would do it.
    Why should he have to do even that if he doesn't believe they are true miracles?  You're asking him to agree to something he doesn't believe just so he can obtain the Holy Oils.  Despite his hypocrisy I noted in the previous page, I happen to agree with him here.

    Offline ultrarigorist

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  • Petty on the Bishop's part, perhaps.
    Keep in mind though, his formative years were in a culture where personal loyalty and patronage factor prominently in the dominant 'religious' sphere. So maybe it's not so much what Fr Hewko believes, but that he challenged what his "dotted-line" superior believes.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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  • Quote
    Williamson is merely telling Hewko to buzz off, by stipulating a condition he knows Hewko will not accept
    If so, then this is a horrible lack of leadership skills and an immature way of resolving conflict.  He should have kept the debate focused on matters of principle; instead he allowed it to veer off course, into matters of opinion and speculation.  No one can win such a debate.  

    Fr Pfeiffer is 100% insane, while I think Fr Hewko is sincere but too extreme in some areas (which is rather common in Trad circles).  But +W's response to this situation has hurt his integrity by not addressing the key areas of dispute.  Had +W known such letters would be made public, he may have responded more politically, but in this day and age, how do you NOT expect such to be made public, especially when Fr Hewko often publicizes many things?  +W needs a PR manager, because this is just messy.

    Offline Meg

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  • If so, then this is a horrible lack of leadership skills and an immature way of resolving conflict.  He should have kept the debate focused on matters of principle; instead he allowed it to veer off course, into matters of opinion and speculation.  No one can win such a debate. 

    I see what you mean, but this is hardly the first time that +W has been accused of lack of leadership skills. Recall his stance of Eucharistic miracles, being fine with Novus Ordo folks attending Novus Ordo masses, Garabandal, Valtora, and more. It's nothing new. He doesn't try to please everyone. It's not surprising. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Emile

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  • The "parents" forget the standards demanded of their high calling, take their fights public, so then the children are drug into it, and voila, a dysfunctional shit-show, driving unnecessary division in traddie-land. Another fine job, Clergy. 


    Offline Seraphina

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  • This is nonsense and it needs to stop.  The shepherds fight one another as the sheep wander off in search of pasture.   

    Offline SeanJohnson

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  • The "parents" forget the standards demanded of their high calling, take their fights public, so then the children are drug into it, and voila, a dysfunctional shit-show, driving unnecessary division in traddie-land. Another fine job, Clergy.

    Agreed, but let us not forget who the one was that took it public.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Miseremini

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  •   +W needs a PR manager, because this is just messy.
    One of the problems we have is that we've had too many PR managers putting things in nice pretty packages for us to accept.
    Give me a straight forward, blunt talking person any day:  someone who says what he means and means what he says.  Only when I know the raw facts can I draw an informed conclusion.
    +Williamson is from my generation when we spoke our minds and the truth as we knew it and let the chips fall where they may... then moved on.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Gunter

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  • If I were Bishop Williamson, I would have responded with an open letter that, "For the good of the faithful who depend upon you, I will grant your request for the Holy Oils, but this should not be construed as an endorsement by myself of your various theological positions."  I think that His Excellency should rise above the personal disagreements with Father Hewko for the sake of the faithful.

    At the same time, Fathers Pfeiffer and Hewko should also have kept their disagreements with Bishop Williamson much more civil than they ended up being.  It's obvious that the primary animus driving their hostility was Bishop Williamson's refusal to consecrate Father Pfeiffer and to endorse his seminary, and so various matters that should have been respectful disagreements transformed into hostile attacks, and Father Hewko was largely dragged along by Father Pfeiffer's stronger will.
    Yes, why air your dirty laundry in public?  FYI holiness is attractive, say no more.