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Author Topic: Bsp. Williamson: "Belief in N.O. Eucharistic Miracles Necessary for Holy Oils"  (Read 28070 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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No, you do not.

Let's not muddy the waters. +W doesn't require any of his priests or faithful to believe in any private revelations, nor to have a positive opinion of any particular works of literature (Valtorta for example).

Did everyone miss this statement from Bishop Williamson here?
Quote
When you deny the genuinely scientific evidence in favor of miracles taking place at Novus Ordo Masses said by Novus Ordo priests consecrated by Novus Ordo bishops, such as happened in Sokolka, Poland, in 2008, you are not living in the same world or Church as I am.

On top of everything else, it's also rather petty and vindictive of Bishop Williamson to refuse the Holy Oils and thus deprive the faithful of them ... merely to punish Father Hewko.  He's ordained priests for some very shady groups (such as some Ukrainians), but will deprive the faithful of Holy Oils out of vindictiveness against Father Hewko?  This reminds me somewhat of the childish attitude he exhibited when slamming the door on Father Pfeiffer after the "Bishop of Broadstairs" incident.  I've heard that in old age, some men revert in some respects to childhood, but I find this extremely immature and petty.

See, the episcopacy was not given to +Williamson for power plays like this, but to serve the faithful.  This has been my chief criticism of groups like the SSPV, who use the Sacraments as weapons to promote their agenda.

I can see not giving them out in some cases, where he might be endorsing some group that could be harming the faithful (i.e. not giving Holy Oils to Father Pfeiffer's group ... though even then I'd look past Fr. Pfeiffer to the faithful who are under his influence), but for something so petty as not believing in NO "Eucharistic miracles"?  Ridiculous.

This also does not say good things to me about +Zendejas.  Can't he put politics and personal grudges aside, swallow his pride, and help out the faithful who are served by Father Hewko and may not have any other viable options?

Did everyone miss this statement from Bishop Williamson here?

When you deny the genuinely scientific evidence in favor of miracles taking place at Novus Ordo Masses said by Novus Ordo priests consecrated by Novus Ordo bishops, such as happened in Sokolka, Poland, in 2008, you are not living in the same world or Church as I am.
Assuming this is what he wrote, that is interesting wording.  It makes it sound like the NO "miracles" are a dogmatic issue for him. It also makes me wonder whether he considers himself part of the NO Church.


Offline Gloria Tibi Domine

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✠ ✠ ✠



On Friday, April 21, 2023 Fr. Hewko wrote [this was an excellent reply!]:


Your Excellency, Bp. Williamson,



I guess if St. Thomas Aquinas were to treat this subject, he would admit that, in the case of a valid Mass where the Consecration truly took place, a miracle of this sort would be possible in the realm of God's omnipotence, but he would certainly have raised questions if it came from the New Mass. Belief in the New Mass "miracles," he couldn't deny, leads directly to the New Mass. The New Mass, although admittedly can be valid, nevertheless, leads to a loss of Faith, is often sacrilegious and represents a Rite that is "odious in God's sight" (as Our Lord told Marie-Julie Jahenny). True miracles confirm the Truth. True miracles confirm Catholic doctrine and the Faith. Will God permit miracles to confirm an odious Rite of Mass? Will God work miracles to reinforce errors, heresy and sacrilege that are nearly intrinsic to the New Mass? This is the question that poses the problem.

With all things considered, perhaps the more prudent ground to stand on, is to patiently withhold judgement and wait for Mother Church to come back to Tradition. Then the world will have the final reliable decision. All the while publicly promoting the pre-Vatican II Eucharistic miracles (of which there are plenty!) and saints, while at the same time, being extremely cautious with the post-Vatican II phenomena and so-called miracles. If the Conciliar Modernist episcopate can parade before the whole world (with Popes Paul VI and John Paul II's presence and approval) a fake Sister Lucia of Fatima, as has been forensically and scientifically proven, what other frauds are they not capable of flaunting?


Humbly asking your blessings, filially yours,

Fr. David Hewko


Post scriptum: The Thuc line is out of the question because it swims in doubt, scandals and craziness, as Archbishop Lefebvre advised, stay away! Therefore, Fr. Pfeiffer is out of the question.
The first miracle at a real mass is called Transubstantiation. If God will not permit miracles to confirm an odious Rite of Mass such as the novus ordo, how will God permit that first miracle called Transubstantiation to take place in such an odious rite of mass such as the novus ordo?

Will God permit miracles to confirm an odious Rite of Mass?
 Holy Mother Church is tradition, it can't leave tradition and come back to tradition, and tradition can't leave Holy Mother Church. The Catholic Church is tradition itself, which is the divinely revealed truth. 
Mother Church to come back to Tradition.




What +Williamson is objecting to in Fr. Hewko, is the latter’s erroneous contention that miracles at a valid NOM are impossible (an error derived from the mistaken and arbitrary notion that any such miracle can ONLY be interpreted as endorsing that rite, rather than reinstalling belief in the Real Presence which that rite attacks).

Naturally, the Pfeifferian dupes now invading CI (ie., a Hewkonian is merely a Pfeifferian without Pfeiffer) find natural allies among the sedes, who believe the same.

Yet it is always overlooked by the Pfeifferites that something miraculous happens at every valid Novus Ordo: Transubstantiation.  And if bread and wine can be transformed into the very body, blood, soul, and divinity of God himself, how much easier to allow the possibility of a consecrated host showing tangible signs of that reality?


Offline Ladislaus

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If the NOM is harmful to souls and displeasing to God, as we Traditional Catholics believe, then, agreeing with Father Hewko, I don't believe that God would work miracles that could be construed as an "endorsement" of said Mass, regardless of what one might say about its validity.  Father Hewko quoted Our Lord's (alleged) words to Marie-Julie Jahenny to the effect that the NOM is "odious" to Him and contains "words from the abyss".  That latter is, IMO, a clear reference to the replacement of the Catholic Offertory with a тαℓмυdic table "blessing".

We also know that, regardless of the "scientific evidence" that Bishop Williamson keeps citing, it would be childsplay for the devil to simulate such "miracles" so as to confound "science".  That is why the first thing the Church does in examining such claims is to test the theology, the doctrine, and the virtues of the individuals related to the alleged miracles or revelations.  If they fail the theological test, if there's anything doctrinally questionable, or disedifying, about the miracle, they would instantly get the old non constat from the Church ... regardless of the "scientific" tests.  So, for instance, even if there was "chain of custody" for the evidence (which in the case of the Polish "miracles" there doesn't appear to be) and it's proven to be living heart muscle, how difficult would it be for the devil to acquire some heart tissue?  It would be no trouble at all.  We had one case with that possessed nun where the devil simulate a full virgin pregnancy and virgin birth.

Why would the devil simulate such miracles vis-a-vis the NOM?  To snooker people into believing that the NOM pleases God and is not objectionable or, if it is in fact invalid, to snooker people (including Traditional Catholics) into believing that it's valid.

This really isn't that difficult, so I don't understand why Bishop Williamson doesn't recognize that the devil can simulate miracles.