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Author Topic: BREAKING: Archbishop Viganò Summoned to Vatican Tribunal on Charge of Schism  (Read 27150 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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This is top notch!!! R&Rers you better start listening to this man. I’m just waiting for him to openly reject Montini onward. I give him leeway, or any one else for that matter, to be iffy on Roncalli, even though I reject him.

I honestly believe he's considering it.  He's dropped some hints, just like I mentioned before he came out regarding the legitimacy of Bergoglio that I felt he was considering it.  He's referred somewhat derisively (in his speech about the Vitium Consensus) to those who believe the problem is just Bergoglio as "Montinians", i.e. those who think Montini through Ratzinger were just fine, and that the problem began with Bergoglio.  Or perhaps it was in his presentation at the Ann Barnhardt conference.  I don't quite remember where he started using the term, but it was meant as his rejection of the core Bennyvacantist principle that implied Bergoglio was the only problem.  He's repeatedly stated that Bergoglio is merely the inevitable metastasis of the Conciliar cancer.  That's why I think the charges of +Vigano being "slippery" are completely false.  He showed up to Barnhardt's conference and largely shot down her position, just as he intended to show up at Michael Matt's conference knowing he would make waves.  Based on those two incidents, I don't believe he'll compromise what he believes for the comfort of his audience .  I just think he hasn't fully made up his mind in terms of coming up with an explanation for how this could have happened.  Perhaps he doesn't feel any sense of urgency to go there right now because, well, those men are dead and are no longer a factor.  In addition, I think he too (like Bergoglio for his nefarious motives) has adopted a tactic of gradually leading the conservative Novus Ordites who will follow back to Tradition.  With that in mind, he couldn't very well go post-Pius-XII SV immediately.  He's taking it one logical step at a time and trying to bring as many as will follow with him back to Tradition.  He didn't want to go from 0 to 60 and then lose 90% of the people who might have otherwise listened to him and taken him seriously.

Offline Meg

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This is top notch!!! R&Rers you better start listening to this man.

And what if we don't start listening to him?

I can understand the thrill of having a sedevacantist in the mainstream news - how often does that happen? Never!

We don't have to deny the Pope in order to keep our Catholic faith. Bergolio/Francis isn't going to keep me from practicing the Catholic faith as it should be practiced. God gives us the Pope we deserve, and things must be pretty bad, from God's perspective, to allow a Pope like Bergolio/Francis.
"It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

~St. Robert Bellarmine
De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


Online Quo vadis Domine

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And what if we don't start listening to him?

I can understand the thrill of having a sedevacantist in the mainstream news - how often does that happen? Never!

We don't have to deny the Pope in order to keep our Catholic faith. Bergolio/Francis isn't going to keep me from practicing the Catholic faith as it should be practiced. God gives us the Pope we deserve, and things must be pretty bad, from God's perspective, to allow a Pope like Bergolio/Francis.

A pope is commissioned by Christ to confirm his brethren in the Faith. A Catholic is one who professes the True Faith, as defined by Pope Pius XII. Your “pope”, Bergoglio, does neither of those things. He is not a Catholic and thus cannot be the head of that of which he’s not a member of.

The reason I say: ‘you better start listening to him’, is because your erroneous position will eventually lead to your demise. This is not fun and games Meg, this is a serious affair in which your immortal soul is at stake. When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio? 
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Online Quo vadis Domine

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I honestly believe he's considering it.  He's dropped some hints, just like I mentioned before he came out regarding the legitimacy of Bergoglio that I felt he was considering it.  He's referred somewhat derisively (in his speech about the Vitium Consensus) to those who believe the problem is just Bergoglio as "Montinians", i.e. those who think Montini through Ratzinger were just fine, and that the problem began with Bergoglio.  Or perhaps it was in his presentation at the Ann Barnhardt conference.  I don't quite remember where he started using the term, but it was meant as his rejection of the core Bennyvacantist principle that implied Bergoglio was the only problem.  He's repeatedly stated that Bergoglio is merely the inevitable metastasis of the Conciliar cancer.  That's why I think the charges of +Vigano being "slippery" are completely false.  He showed up to Barnhardt's conference and largely shot down her position, just as he intended to show up at Michael Matt's conference knowing he would make waves.  Based on those two incidents, I don't believe he'll compromise what he believes for the comfort of his audience .  I just think he hasn't fully made up his mind in terms of coming up with an explanation for how this could have happened.  Perhaps he doesn't feel any sense of urgency to go there right now because, well, those men are dead and are no longer a factor.  In addition, I think he too (like Bergoglio for his nefarious motives) has adopted a tactic of gradually leading the conservative Novus Ordites who will follow back to Tradition.  With that in mind, he couldn't very well go post-Pius-XII SV immediately.  He's taking it one logical step at a time and trying to bring as many as will follow with him back to Tradition.  He didn't want to go from 0 to 60 and then lose 90% of the people who might have otherwise listened to him and taken him seriously.

Yes, I agree.
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Offline Meg

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The reason I say: ‘you better start listening to him’, is because your erroneous position will eventually lead to your demise. 

So, not becoming a sedevacantist will lead to my demise. This is cult thinking. It reminds me of the Charismatics, who believe that speaking in tongues is the only authentic form of Catholicism. You believe the same about sedevacantism, in that it is the only authentic form of Catholicism at this time, isn't that correct? Both Sedevacantism and Charismaticism are novelties; the precepts of which are not a part of the Deposit of Faith. 

+Vigano is leading you and others into error. That's your choice. I do not have to choose it. 
"It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

~St. Robert Bellarmine
De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


Online Quo vadis Domine

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So, not becoming a sedevacantist will lead to my demise. This is cult thinking. It reminds me of the Charismatics, who believe that speaking in tongues is the only authentic form of Catholicism. You believe the same about sedevacantism, in that it is the only authentic form of Catholicism at this time, isn't that correct? Both Sedevacantism and Charismaticism are novelties; the precepts of which are not a part of the Deposit of Faith.

+Vigano is leading you and others into error. That's your choice. I do not have to choose it.

Again: When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio? 
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Offline Meg

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Again: When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio?

There's no Church doctrine which says that if we have a heretical Pope, then we, the laity, must proclaim to everyone that he is not the pope.

Of course the lines between laity and clergy are blurred, in that now we, the laity, become the arbitors of all that is truly Catholic. Isn't that what Bergolio is trying to do with the synod business? A priesthood of the laity? We already have that in the world of tradition, where the sedevacantists are the new lay clergy. They (you) tell us what we are to believe in order to save our souls. It's very prideful, and lacks humility. As I said, a novelty.
"It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

~St. Robert Bellarmine
De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

Offline Catholic Knight

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There's no Church doctrine which says that if we have a heretical Pope, then we, the laity, must proclaim to everyone that he is not the pope.

Of course the lines between laity and clergy are blurred, in that now we, the laity, become the arbitors of all that is truly Catholic. Isn't that what Bergolio is trying to do with the synod business? A priesthood of the laity? We already have that in the world of tradition, where the sedevacantists are the new lay clergy. They (you) tell us what we are to believe in order to save our souls. It's very prideful, and lacks humility. As I said, a novelty.

If you come to hold that Jorge Bergoglio is a public manifest formal heretic, then you must in conscience reject him as pope.  This is because the public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.


Offline Meg

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If you come to hold that Jorge Bergoglio is a public manifest formal heretic, then you must in conscience reject him as pope.  This is because the public sin of manifest formal heresy by its very nature separates the heretic from the Church.

So saith one of our sedevacantist overlords here. You have no jurisdiction over me. YOU do not get to tell me what to believe or what I must do. 
"It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

~St. Robert Bellarmine
De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

Offline Ladislaus

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A pope is commissioned by Christ to confirm his brethren in the Faith. A Catholic is one who professes the True Faith, as defined by Pope Pius XII. Your “pope”, Bergoglio, does neither of those things. He is not a Catholic and thus cannot be the head of that of which he’s not a member of.

The reason I say: ‘you better start listening to him’, is because your erroneous position will eventually lead to your demise. This is not fun and games Meg, this is a serious affair in which your immortal soul is at stake. When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio?

I think it's hopeless.  We've been promoting these "Fundamentals of Catholicism 101" here on CI for years and it simply "does not compute" to minds that have been corrupted by R&R.  Unfortunately, many here have been reduced to little more than thinly-veiled Old Catholics.  In order to salvage their "security-blanket" of having some guy walking around Rome in a white cassock whose picture they can put in the vestibule, they're willing to throw the entire Catholic Papacy and the entire Catholic Church (with her marks/notes) under the proverbial bus.  It's a very sad state of affairs.

R&R may be the first and most grave error that a legitimate Traditional pope will have to condemn and correct before all others.

Online Quo vadis Domine

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So saith one of our sedevacantist overlords here. You have no jurisdiction over me. YOU do not get to tell me what to believe or what I must do.

You are absolutely correct! A layman has no authority to tell you what to believe, BUT THE POPE DOES!

For the third time: When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio?
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


Online Quo vadis Domine

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I think it's hopeless.  We've been promoting these "Fundamentals of Catholicism 101" here on CI for years and it simply "does not compute" to minds that have been corrupted by R&R.  Unfortunately, many here have been reduced to little more than thinly-veiled Old Catholics.  In order to salvage their "security-blanket" of having some guy walking around Rome in a white cassock whose picture they can put in the vestibule, they're willing to throw the entire Catholic Papacy and the entire Catholic Church (with her marks/notes) under the proverbial bus.  It's a very sad state of affairs.

R&R may be the first and most grave error that a legitimate Traditional pope will have to condemn and correct before all others.

Sadly, I believe you are absolutely right.
For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Offline Meg

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You are absolutely correct! I have no authority to tell you what to believe, BUT THE POPE DOES!

For the third time: When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio?

I'm not going to address a hypothetical that has for its end some arbitrary time in the future. Why not deal with the here and now?

You do not get to dictate to anyone what the Truths of the Catholic Faith are. Evidently, you believe yourself to be as a priest (as some of the other sedevacantists here do), which entitles you to force others to the tenets of your sedevacantist religion. I do not belong to your sedevacantist religion. I do not believe that the laity are on the same level as the priesthood, as you (and Bergolio) seem to believe.

"It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

~St. Robert Bellarmine
De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

Online Quo vadis Domine

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I'm not going to address a hypothetical that has for its end some arbitrary time in the future. Why not deal with the here and now?

You do not get to dictate to anyone what the Truths of the Catholic Faith are. Evidently, you believe yourself to be as a priest (as some of the other sedevacantists here do), which entitles you to force others to the tenets of your sedevacantist religion. I do not belong to your sedevacantist religion. I do not believe that the laity are on the same level as the priesthood, as you (and Bergolio) seem to believe.

There are two hyperbolic sayings (questions) which demonstrate the problem with your position. 1) Are you more Catholic than the pope? 2) Is the pope Catholic?

Both of these “questions” have the same connotation as saying: “is grass green?” and “is water wet?”

A person who holds the sedevacantist position can still avail himself to the use of those two rhetorical questions.

Your bizarre notion about Catholicism turns those questions on their head because you truly believe that you are, in fact, more Catholic than the pope. An honest person will see the inherent problem with this.

For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

Offline Mark 79

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You are absolutely correct! A layman has no authority to tell you what to believe, BUT THE POPE DOES!

For the third time: When we get a true pope, are you going to listen to him and obediently follow his teachings or will you continue to follow your own caprice, sifting through and questioning his teachings, as you do with your current “pope” Bergoglio?
Bravo!