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Author Topic: BREAKING: Archbishop Viganò Summoned to Vatican Tribunal on Charge of Schism  (Read 28575 times)

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I wonder what Bishop Williamson will say wrt the Vigano happenings.....
I see his most recent EC does not mention it. 

Have any of the R&R posters made posts on the excommunication of Vigano? I see a few provided links to Vigano's statements and/or made posts related to the usual R&R vs sedevacantist debate, but are there any R&R comments on Vigano's recent statements about his excommunication? 

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
I see his most recent EC does not mention it. 

Have any of the R&R posters made posts on the excommunication of Vigano? I see a few provided links to Vigano's statements and/or made posts related to the usual R&R vs sedevacantist debate, but are there any R&R comments on Vigano's recent statements about his excommunication?
It's more of the same 2V. The excommunication will happen (if it hasn't already) because they will not tolerate any dissenting voice, especially not one of an archbishop. They employ the same tactics as in the past, ones that have proven to be successful.... 
Quote
"...(f) contriving pretexts for destroying those who present a problem for the Revolutionists, and for neutralizing their effect; this tactic calls for an oblique attack: Fr. Coughlin was removed from his radio ministry on the excuse that his radio messages were political (1939); Fr. Feeney was censured not for heresy, but for disobedience; Archbishop Lefebvre was maneuvered into a situation wherein he had to disobey his ecclesiastical superiors, or abandon his efforts to provide Traditionalists priests for the oppressed faithful (1988).
 (g) Closing the issue: Once a step forward is taken, all discussion concerning the matter is terminated, no matter how strong the opposition, no matter how execrable the action in question...
...Unfortunately, the champions of the Faith have been too slow to recognize the malice and flintiness of our enemies. Consequently, they have played into their hands. Usually they have not established a legal base from which they might carry on the struggle against the Revolution, with the result that they have been conveniently vulnerable to the law; this was Archbishop Lefebvre's mistake. In this Conciliar Age, it is only to suppress opposition that the law is applied." - Who Shall Ascend?




And what if we don't start listening to him?

I can understand the thrill of having a sedevacantist in the mainstream news - how often does that happen? Never!

We don't have to deny the Pope in order to keep our Catholic faith. Bergolio/Francis isn't going to keep me from practicing the Catholic faith as it should be practiced. God gives us the Pope we deserve, and things must be pretty bad, from God's perspective, to allow a Pope like Bergolio/Francis.
THE MOST EVIDENT MARK of God’s anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clerics’ who are priests more in name than in deed, priests who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than the charity and affection of devoted shepherds.
Instead of nourishing those committed to their care, they rend and devour them brutally. Instead of leading their people to God, they drag Christian souls into hell in their train. Instead of being the salt of the earth and the light of the world, they are its innocuous poison and its murky darkness.
St. Gregory the Great says that priests and pastors will stand condemned before God as the murderers of any souls lost through neglect or silence. Tot occidimus, quot ad mortem ire tepidi et tacentes videmus. Elsewhere St. Gregory asserts that nothing more angers God than to see those whom He set aside for the correction of others, give bad example by a wicked and depraved life.’
Instead of preventing offenses against His Majesty, such priests become themselves the first to persecute Him, they lose their zeal for the salvation of souls and think only of following their own inclinations. Their affections go no farther than earthly things, they eagerly bask in the empty praises of men, using their sacred ministry to serve their ambitions, they abandon the things of God to devote themselves to the things of the world, and in their saintly calling of holiness, they spend their time in profane and worldly pursuits.
When God permits such things, it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people, and is visiting His most dreadful anger upon them. That is why He cries unceasingly to Christians, “Return, 0 ye revolting children . . . and I will give you pastors according to my own heart” (Jer. 3, 14-15). Thus, irregularities in the lives of priests constitute a scourge visited upon the people in consequence of sin.’
-St. John Eudes, ‘The Priest: His Dignity and Obligations’



Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
The Sede vs. R&R debate has no end.

I am not a fan of either. Both seem somewhat unsatisfactory to me.

Will I be condemned if I don't pick one?

No, but you may be depending on WHY you pick something.  That's the problem with R&R as articulated above; it undermines and destroys Catholic doctrine/dogma about the papacy, to the point that one could not condemn the Old Catholics or Eastern Orthodox or even Prots.  If the papacy is capable of going corrupt in faith and morals, to the point of justifying and even requiring the separation of communion with it, then how can we say it didn't go corrupt already during the time of the Prots or the Old Catholics?  So if that's what you mean by R&R, yes, you're rejecting Catholic doctrine.

If you have some other rationale for why you think Bergogio et al. might be popes (at least materially) that doesn't destroy the papacy, then it's just a question of theory.  So, for instannce, Father Chazal considers himself R&R but he articulates a position that does not destroy the Catholic papacy and the Catholic Church ... though I'm not sure I would consider him R&R in that sense of the term.

No, but you may be depending on WHY you pick something.  That's the problem with R&R as articulated above; it undermines and destroys Catholic doctrine/dogma about the papacy, to the point that one could not condemn the Old Catholics or Eastern Orthodox or even Prots.  If the papacy is capable of going corrupt in faith and morals, to the point of justifying and even requiring the separation of communion with it, then how can we say it didn't go corrupt already during the time of the Prots or the Old Catholics?  So if that's what you mean by R&R, yes, you're rejecting Catholic doctrine.

If you have some other rationale for why you think Bergogio et al. might be popes (at least materially) that doesn't destroy the papacy, then it's just a question of theory.  So, for instannce, Father Chazal considers himself R&R but he articulates a position that does not destroy the Catholic papacy and the Catholic Church ... though I'm not sure I would consider him R&R in that sense of the term.

I agree, and this is precisely the most absurd part of the R&R.

Where do you draw the line? If you openly oppose the Pope, then how can you condemn others who do the same? How can you be so sure that the errors that you oppose are really errors?

The main defense for this accusation, from the R&R "authorities" is that the Conciliar Popes have not used their teaching authority for real. They are using a kind of "dialogue mode" Papacy, on which they merely propose ideas, and don't really teach.

It does sound weak, but at least they have an explanation for their position which differs them from the Old Catholics, Orthodox, etc...

Fr. Chazal's position seems closer to the Cassiciacuм Thesis to me, although I have not studied it thoroughly.