Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it  (Read 59325 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2015, 06:27:20 AM »
Quote from: LaramieHirsch



 :shocked:

Wow.  I wonder if another benchmark moment is coming for me.  I originally started going to Society Mass this Fall because of a scheduling problem.  

But this is a bit more hardcore.  

I like the fact that Society priests know and tell us that the Novus Ordo Mass is a modernist abuse.  To be prevented from saying that?  Hmmm.  Sort of a game changer.  

I haven't been fully on board with the Society.  But as things progress and I become more involved, I find myself leaning towards hesitation at the idea of a reconciliation without Rome repenting of their modernism.  

A lot to think about, this.





Laramie, the most compelling reason why one would oppose a deal is if you look at what happened to all those once Traditional groups who made a deal. (To that we can add the story of the 'conservative' FFI and what happened to them under Francis).  A very good docuмentation of the former can be found in this pdf...a must read for those in situations like yourself.

https://isthisoperationѕυιcιdє.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/operation-ѕυιcιdє-published-20121029.pdf


BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2015, 06:33:13 AM »
Quote from: MMagdala

These are simply false accusations. The SSPX is I'm sure a fine organization.  However, they hardly own some patent on Tradition.  There is a variety of adherence to Tradition (and rejection of Conciliarism, including modernism in general) among the various Ecclesia Dei groups and individuals, not to mention other trads.  It's not a monochrome.  The excerpts above reveal quite a bit of ignorance.  The text above also assumes quite a bit from someone not in a position to make such broad judgments about people he doesn't know.  
.

I agree with this.

Quote from: Matthew
Yes, it is monochrome, binary, black or white.

There IS a Crisis in the Church. There IS a false pope trying to destroy the Church (or even a lack of pope, according to some) and a ton of Churchmen not doing their jobs to protect the Faith. Lots of Modernists in the highest places in Rome, including the hierarchy and even the Papacy.

There are only TWO paths:

Resisting this (Tradition)
Going along with it (Novus Ordo, pseudo-Tradition, etc.)


That's why I say the Indult is NOT Traditional, properly speaking. I allow Indult-goers on CathInfo, because not everyone knows or understands fully, and PEOPLE (not ideas) need to be given some slack. Also, they are Catholic (since they obviously want to be real Catholics) even if misguided. It's not my place to excommunicate.

But talking about the position, strictly speaking an Indult or "approved by Rome" Latin Mass-going Catholic is NOT a Traditionalist. They are a conservative Catholic.

Why?

Because there is a cardinal rule for the Traditional Movement, and Indult-goers deny or violate this rule:

There is a Crisis in the Church, and the highest law of the Church ("The Salvation of Souls") demands that we save our souls and keep the Faith; hence we have the right to doubt-free priests and doubt-free sacraments, and a right to the timeless Mass of St. Pius V, along with all the Catholic doctrines, practices, and morality that goes along with it. To this end, we Trads have a right and a duty to set up independent (outside the authority and jurisdiction of Rome) chapels, Mass centers, seminaries, etc. with the Church supplying ALL necessary jurisdiction for Mass, confession, marriages, and ordination.


If you disagree with that mission statement for the Traditional Movement, you're not a Trad, PERIOD. At least strictly speaking. You might be conservative, you might like smells and bells, but if you don't believe in being aloof from Rome and the right of Tradition to exist without special permission, you're NOT a Trad.


I would say, here, Matt, that you also prove Magdala's point above; that you are not someone in a position to make judgement about people you don't know. There is no (and I think you'll agree with me) "traditionalists" or "non-traditionalist", there is either "Catholic", or "not". Its easy to become fixated on funneling those who are Catholic, unconsciously(?), out of what we consider Catholic. Whether its to make ourselves feel more confident in our position, to make others see our position as more right, or both. There are plenty of Catholics who are not-SSPX, not-Resistance, etc. The Archbishop and the SSPX may have had a huge role to play in the protection of Tradition and ensuring its survival, but that is no longer the case. There are many Catholics, priests and laity, who are keeping the Faith- thanks to the Archbishop, to be sure- who operate within the diocesan structures of the Church. They have the Faith, wholly. One can see that they are growing also.

And I can attest, first-hand, as I believe you cannot (but I am not sure) that it is not all "smells and bells". Sure, there are Smells and bells Catholics out there who attend, say,FSSP masses. But there are just as many people who attend "Trad" masses for the wrong reasons also; and that's what we find wrong with 'smells and bells' Catholics- that they "don't get it" and/or that they attend for the wrong reasons, etc. We don't even have to look outside the Resistance for that. And there are just as many people who attend FSSP masses (with which I have experience) who are, as I've said, are genuinely keeping the Faith. I may say that I've seen a greater deal of Charity in them as well then I've ever encountered in most Trad parishes- and I've been to many- SSPX, independent, CMRI.

Anyways, these are just my 2 cents. Not worth much. Not trying to be polemical. Just trying to get my thoughts
Quote
down on paper
and hoping for the salvation of us all.


BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it
« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2015, 06:56:13 AM »
Quote from: s2srea
...
And I can attest, first-hand, as I believe you cannot (but I am not sure) that it is not all "smells and bells". Sure, there are Smells and bells Catholics out there who attend, say,FSSP masses. But there are just as many people who attend "Trad" masses for the wrong reasons also; and that's what we find wrong with 'smells and bells' Catholics- that they "don't get it" and/or that they attend for the wrong reasons, etc...

I tend to be glad that even those who attend "for the wrong reasons" (i.e. superficial, aesthetic ones) are attending. They might eventually come to be there for the right reasons. Meanwhile, I'd rather they come for the wrong ones than not come at all.

BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it
« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2015, 07:13:39 AM »
Quote from: clare

I tend to be glad that even those who attend "for the wrong reasons" (i.e. superficial, aesthetic ones) are attending. They might eventually come to be there for the right reasons. Meanwhile, I'd rather they come for the wrong ones than not come at all.


And lets be frank- they 'are' getting the Faith (I'm speaking specifically of those who attend the Tridentine Rite churches). Lets not delude ourselves into thinking that there is nothing more than Protestantism there. Someone who thinks that is either not being fair to the whole picture or is ignorant. Is there error in some places? Sure. But look at the Trad world. It is far from free from error.

BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it
« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2015, 07:17:34 AM »
No surprises here. The mindset of the new Society has existed for a couple of decades. Its leaders no longer believe in a state of emergency and therefore want rid of any suggestion of schism. The will to resist evaporated a long time ago if it ever existed and the only interest has been to find a special place within the pantheon away from the great unwashed where the membership can indulge in classical ritual and please an audience at the same time.