Author Topic: BREAKING! SSPX receives agreement from Rome - Bp. Fellay considering it (Read 53329 times)

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #30 on:** November 15, 2015, 05:43:59 PM »

There's a difference between true and believable. This information is believable, but not necessarily true.

Matthew, maybe you can ask the source to be disclosed. If not, you could at least offer a character testimony.

For all we know, it could just be someone who wants the forums to stop focusing on Ambrose Moran and Boston KY. That'd be believable, if not true.

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #31 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:23:29 PM »

Quote from: curioustrad

Has anybody factored in the visit of Bishop Faure to Canada and the USA in the next 3 weeks - interesting coincidence of events. Bishop Tissier might be preparing for a compromise but on the other hand....

Yes, he could be packing his bags to join +W & +F now that the die is cast. I don't believe he will take the train to Rome.

Matthew · « **Reply #32 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:24:40 PM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Also attached to this was this tidbit... "Fr. Wegner was in Houston 2 weeks ago, he told the SSPX faithful, 'Don't be surprised if one day you wake up and you are in Rome.'"

This.

This tends to corroborate this pending deal with Rome. Why would Fr. Wegner say this in Houston JUST TWO WEEKS AGO to get us all ready?

Matthew · « **Reply #33 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:28:09 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Ladislaus
1) this is so far only a rumor ... from an anonymous e-mailer

2) even if it's true, there's no certainty that +Fellay will sign it

3) even if he signs it, one would have to read the terms of the agreement to be able to assess the full impact

So let's not jump the gun here. Several more steps. It could be sent back to Rome with suggestions for revisions, which Rome then may or may not make, and the whole thing could fizzle again.

In regards to #1, It's not really "anonymous". It is from an un-named source. Clearly, Matthew would not have posted an anonymous email without a well-founded reason to believe that the information contained therein is credible. He has not divulged the identity of the source, but this does not make it "anonymous".

Of course, you are absolutely correct about #2, though I doubt a serious proposal would have been sent to Menzingen without a well-founded belief on the part of the Vatican that the terms are acceptable to Bishop Fellay.

In regards to #3, try as I might, I cannot imagine terms that would be acceptable to Rome that would also be acceptable to a faithful Catholic. On this matter, however, it's probably better not to speculate because, as we've seen in the past, anything we can think, Modernist Rome can make even more despicable.

Yes indeed. The OP was not positive proof, but it's somewhat more than a baseless rumor whispered in a dark alley by someone in the shadows.

The person used his real name, so he is only anonymous to you and the other CathInfo members :) He is European and his e-mail address was European.

I'm just passing along the news here. His only motivation is to scuttle a deal with Rome, for the good of souls and the SSPX.

P.S. I edited his post (like the editor of a magazine might) for grammar, punctuation, etc. I wanted his writing to be standard English, so you couldn't guess anything about him by his speech. So if he sounds too American -- it's because I corrected the original e-mail. Nothing was substantially changed, however, except for things I intentionally left out for privacy reasons.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #34 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:34:42 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I'm just passing along the news here. His only motivation is to scuttle a deal with Rome, for the good of souls and the SSPX.

He didn't exactly say that and I wouldn't randomly apply to him such extreme optimism. Here's what he gave as his reason:

Quote

Matthew, there are still many good but extremely naive laymen out there. They cannot imagine +Fellay negotiating with Conciliar Rome. They still hope that there will be no sellout of our beloved Society. But the sooner they are hit by reality the better.

2Vermont · « **Reply #35 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:35:29 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
IMO, if they accept Francis' "year of mercy", they will have to sign the agreement before the start (8th December). Give 2-3 weeks!

Why?

Perhaps because if they don't, Francis might remove their faculties to hear confessions?

Matthew · « **Reply #36 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:42:41 PM »

I don't think it's open for debate whether this was worth posting. 4,000 votes say "Yes". I think the traffic to this thread has already confirmed and vindicated my gut feeling that this was important news.

If you aren't interested until I can produce a picture of Bishop Fellay signing a deal with Rome with a notary's seal on the bottom, well... What can I say? Feel free to browse other threads that do interest you.

People vote with their clicks "what's worthwhile" and what constitutes interesting news.

No one is forcing anyone to follow this news story. Feel free to ignore it, go look at cat jokes on the Internet, or whatever suits your fancy. It's a free country (err...at least it used to be).

Matthew · « **Reply #37 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:48:00 PM »

UPDATE:

I decided that I edited too much from point #3. I realized that I accidentally edited out some quite important content:

Quote

3. F. Franz Schmidberger, currently head of the seminary at Zaitzkofen, has told a layman that Menzingen has now the proposal on the table and that it will only take a short while that all will be settled with Rome. They only have to solve a "few minor issues".

Mark 79 · « **Reply #38 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:48:48 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

...It's a free country (err...at least it used to be).

That is a phrase that will drop from usage. Here is another common phrase that will drop from usage: "Is the Pope Catholic?"

At least the bear is still in the woods.

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #39 on:** November 15, 2015, 07:35:28 PM »

Quote from: Meg

Something for Bp. Fellay to consider: if Francis manages to change Church teaching, under the guise of 'pastoral practice,' then what will keep the SSPX priests (if they reconcile) from being forced to give Holy Communion to anyone who approaches the altar, such as the divorced and remarried, homo, and other living-in-sin Catholics? I've no doubt that Francis will try to allow these unrepentant Catholics to receive communion, if he can possibly find a way to do so.

Or reject the speedy 45 days annulments?

Meg · « **Reply #40 on:** November 15, 2015, 07:42:15 PM »

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora

Quote from: Meg
Something for Bp. Fellay to consider: if Francis manages to change Church teaching, under the guise of 'pastoral practice,' then what will keep the SSPX priests (if they reconcile) from being forced to give Holy Communion to anyone who approaches the altar, such as the divorced and remarried, homo, and other living-in-sin Catholics? I've no doubt that Francis will try to allow these unrepentant Catholics to receive communion, if he can possibly find a way to do so.

Or reject the speedy 45 days annulments?

Yeah, that too. Maybe I'm over-reacting, but it would seem to me that if the SSPX, after reconciliation, were to refuse to give Holy Communion to anyone who asks for it, then it could be grounds for reprimand of some kind. I already worry that this might happen to the Ecclesia Dei communities, too, if Francis has his way. Though maybe he won't get away with it just yet. I dunno.

ihsv · « **Reply #41 on:** November 15, 2015, 07:52:56 PM »

This is possible for only one of the following 2 reasons:

a) the modernists have stopped opposing Catholicism and have converted, or
b) the Catholics have stopped opposing modernism and have surrendered.

"No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." (Matthew 6:24)

"Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God; as God saith: I will dwell in them, and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore, Go out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: And I will receive you; and I will be a Father to you; and you shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

"A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment." (Titus 3:10-11)

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #42 on:** November 15, 2015, 08:08:22 PM »

Quote from: Meg

Quote from: Marie Auxiliadora
Quote from: Meg
Something for Bp. Fellay to consider: if Francis manages to change Church teaching, under the guise of 'pastoral practice,' then what will keep the SSPX priests (if they reconcile) from being forced to give Holy Communion to anyone who approaches the altar, such as the divorced and remarried, homo, and other living-in-sin Catholics? I've no doubt that Francis will try to allow these unrepentant Catholics to receive communion, if he can possibly find a way to do so.

Or reject the speedy 45 days annulments?

Yeah, that too. Maybe I'm over-reacting, but it would seem to me that if the SSPX, after reconciliation, were to refuse to give Holy Communion to anyone who asks for it, then it could be grounds for reprimand of some kind. I already worry that this might happen to the Ecclesia Dei communities, too, if Francis has his way. Though maybe he won't get away with it just yet. I dunno.

Americans accounted for about half of the nearly 50,000 annulments granted in 2012, the latest year for which statistics are available. Beginning the “year of mercy”, Dec. 8th, they will be granted in 45 days and free, except for a nominal fee for administrative costs. How many do you think will be granted during 12/2015 - 12/2016? Even if they denied Communion to the divorced and remarried, they can get their “mercy” annulment in 45 days and get back in line. Then what?

ubipetrus · « **Reply #43 on:** November 15, 2015, 08:44:27 PM »

As they say, "the devil is in the details," and one must pray that Bp. Fellay and company discern that "devil" in the details among those remaining "issues" they still need to work out. Otherwise, that plastic "red hat" they give him may prove to be the most costly plastic hat in all of human history.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #44 on:** November 15, 2015, 08:47:47 PM »

Quote from: Antony

Just more hearsay. Anyone can make up anything thing they want. Does not mean what they say holds water. I, from my computer here, could say anything I want about bishop Fellay and many of you would believe it, even if it was not true.

Given the 4 or 5 sources from three different locations all pointing to an imminent agreement, I'd say it's more than worth passing the idea around for the sake of conversation (this is a discussion forum, after all).

This is the part I find least believable:

Quote

Yes there are a lot of Resistance supporters and strong opponents of a practical agreement with Conciliar Rome "within" the SSPX - priests as well as laymen. I am pretty sure that you are aware of that fact. "We" are waiting for the upcoming agreement and then we will split.

I'm sure this person is speaking accurately of their own plans, but I find it hard to believe that there will be any sizable number fitting this description.