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Author Topic: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM  (Read 3220 times)

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Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 09:23:08 AM »
…especially by those who are not privy to all the details of the situation, is only causing unnecessary trouble.

I was married by Bishop Thomas Aquinas at the chapel of Fr. David Nass. I also speak fluent Portuguese, have been to Brazil this month and spoke personally with parishioners there.

You provided no true Catholic argument and are only assuming people don’t know the details.




Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 09:31:54 AM »
I recall reading that in the rite of consecration of Bishops, it states the purpose of the Episcopate quite clearly:

“A bishop judges, interprets, consecrates, ordains, offers, baptizes and confirms.”

“Grant to him, O Lord, an Episcopal chair for ruling Thy Church and the people committed to him. Be his authority, be his power, be his strength.”

I simply do not understand this concept of the Novus Ordo possessing the true authority. They don't have the Faith. Maybe I am misunderstanding or taking what others say too literally.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.”
— Galatians 1:8, DRB

Furthermore, the sacred and holy Synod teaches, that, in the ordination of bishops, priests, and of the other orders, neither the consent, nor vocation, nor authority, whether of the people, or of any civil power or magistrate whatsoever, is required in such wise as that, without this, the ordination is invalid: yea rather doth It decree, that all those who, being only called and instituted by the people, or by the civil power and magistrate, ascend to the exercise of these ministrations, and those who of their own rashness assume them to themselves, are not ministers of the church, but are to be looked upon as thieves and robbers, who have not entered by the door. — Council of Trent, Session 23, Chapter 4

Isn't this "door", the Faith?

I am not trying to provoke anyone, I am honestly wondering about these things. Isn't it the Faith that is the source of true authority in the Church (not rhetorical questions)? By authority, I mean the authority to dispense the sacraments, and the authority to teach and govern the faithful.


This is a delicate theological point, so we all need to be careful.

But simply put, there is the episcopacy itself as a sacrament, and then distinct from that is the jurisdictional powers that may come out of that when a bishop is assigned a diocese. But it is not always the case that they are given dioceses , which it is why it is distinct.


Distinct does not mean that one comes from Our Lord, while the other does not. It just means distinct.


Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 09:38:46 AM »

This is a delicate theological point, so we all need to be careful.

But simply put, there is the episcopacy itself as a sacrament, and then distinct from that is the jurisdictional powers that may come out of that when a bishop is assigned a diocese. But it is not always the case that they are given dioceses , which it is why it is distinct.


Distinct does not mean that one comes from Our Lord, while the other does not. It just means distinct.
I see. Thank you.

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 01:52:24 PM »
I recall reading that in the rite of consecration of Bishops, it states the purpose of the Episcopate quite clearly:

“A bishop judges, interprets, consecrates, ordains, offers, baptizes and confirms.”

“Grant to him, O Lord, an Episcopal chair for ruling Thy Church and the people committed to him. Be his authority, be his power, be his strength.”

I simply do not understand this concept of the Novus Ordo possessing the true authority. They don't have the Faith. Maybe I am misunderstanding or taking what others say too literally.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.”
— Galatians 1:8, DRB

Furthermore, the sacred and holy Synod teaches, that, in the ordination of bishops, priests, and of the other orders, neither the consent, nor vocation, nor authority, whether of the people, or of any civil power or magistrate whatsoever, is required in such wise as that, without this, the ordination is invalid: yea rather doth It decree, that all those who, being only called and instituted by the people, or by the civil power and magistrate, ascend to the exercise of these ministrations, and those who of their own rashness assume them to themselves, are not ministers of the church, but are to be looked upon as thieves and robbers, who have not entered by the door. — Council of Trent, Session 23, Chapter 4

Isn't this "door", the Faith?

I am not trying to provoke anyone, I am honestly wondering about these things. Isn't it the Faith that is the source of true authority in the Church (not rhetorical questions)? By authority, I mean the authority to dispense the sacraments, and the authority to teach and govern the faithful.

As I understand, in the whole history of the Church, there were never bishops without a territory. Even the so called "titular" bishops are attached to defunct dioceses. A bishop without a jurisdiction is a Traditionalist novelty. Some of the bishop's powers are related to jurisdiction, which he will only have on his assigned territory.

When a Traditionalist bishop acts like he has some authority to govern the faithful, he is tending toward schism, since he is trying to establish a hierarchy that is not related to the Pope. Both for Sedevacantists and R&R this is true. Just look at how careful both Abp. Lefevbre and older (serious) Sedevacantist bishops were not to look like they have a territory. The SSPX makes an effort always to send different bishops to different places, so as not to look like this or that bishop is attached to a certain continent or country.

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 02:01:44 PM »
As I understand, in the whole history of the Church, there were never bishops without a territory. Even the so called "titular" bishops are attached to defunct dioceses. A bishop without a jurisdiction is a Traditionalist novelty. Some of the bishop's powers are related to jurisdiction, which he will only have on his assigned territory.

When a Traditionalist bishop acts like he has some authority to govern the faithful, he is tending toward schism, since he is trying to establish a hierarchy that is not related to the Pope. Both for Sedevacantists and R&R this is true. Just look at how careful both Abp. Lefevbre and older (serious) Sedevacantist bishops were not to look like they have a territory. The SSPX makes an effort always to send different bishops to different places, so as not to look like this or that bishop is attached to a certain continent or country.


You're forgetting about Bishops sent to the missions who were not in dioceses.

You're also not making an attempt to understand the whole issue of supplied jurisdiction and what that means where there has been consistently for the first time in history a line of Popes who are not acting as Catholics and must be distanced from.

Its new yes. But that doesnt mean its right.

The temptation is pretending like you have more than just emergency jurisdiction. But many of our clergy have resisted that.


Not distinguishing between the Sacrament of Holy Orders and jurisdiction is a classic mistake of people who are poorly catechized.