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Author Topic: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM  (Read 3039 times)

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Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 09:49:51 PM »
The issue isn’t supplied jurisdiction itself. Everyone here agrees that in a real state of necessity, the Church supplies so the faithful aren’t deprived of the sacraments.

The problem is what’s being done with it.

What we’re seeing in the communiqué is supplied jurisdiction being treated like it creates a standing authority structure, “our supplied authority,” governing apostolates, expecting submission, and effectively telling other priests where they can or can’t operate. That’s not how this principle works.

Supplied jurisdiction is temporary and limited. It exists to help souls in necessity. It doesn’t give anyone the right to build a parallel system of control or to regulate other priests who are in the exact same situation.

If one priest can appeal to necessity, then so can another. You can’t use the same principle to justify your ministry and then turn around and restrict someone else’s who holds the same faith and operates under the same necessity.

That’s where this crosses a line.

At that point, it stops being about supplying what’s lacking and starts looking like an attempt to create authority where none has been given. And that’s exactly what raises concern about SAJM, not its existence, but the way it’s beginning to function.

If the principle is sound, it has to stay within its limits:
to supply, not to control.
The communique from Dom Thomas Aquinas appears as nothing but Catholic common sense, and to try to construe it as some abuse of canon law or supplied jurisdiction, especially by those who are not privy to all the details of the situation, is only causing unnecessary trouble.

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 10:12:48 PM »
Supplied jurisdiction and supplied authority are not exactly the same. They don't sound the same to me.

It seems that they are actually tending towards schism and establishing a kind of parallell hierarchy, not in line with the Sedevacante state, nor with the R&R principles.

A most surprising and strange development. It seems that Bp. Williamson's presence guaranteed a certain chaos, in a good sense. They were embarassed to go against his "herding cats principle". Not that he is gone, they are trying to herd cats indeed, and it is becoming an even greater mess.


Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #42 on: Today at 04:56:57 AM »
The issue isn’t supplied jurisdiction itself. Everyone here agrees that in a real state of necessity, the Church supplies so the faithful aren’t deprived of the sacraments.

The problem is what’s being done with it.

What we’re seeing in the communiqué is supplied jurisdiction being treated like it creates a standing authority structure, “our supplied authority,” governing apostolates, expecting submission, and effectively telling other priests where they can or can’t operate. That’s not how this principle works.

Supplied jurisdiction is temporary and limited. It exists to help souls in necessity. It doesn’t give anyone the right to build a parallel system of control or to regulate other priests who are in the exact same situation.

If one priest can appeal to necessity, then so can another. You can’t use the same principle to justify your ministry and then turn around and restrict someone else’s who holds the same faith and operates under the same necessity.

That’s where this crosses a line.

At that point, it stops being about supplying what’s lacking and starts looking like an attempt to create authority where none has been given. And that’s exactly what raises concern about SAJM, not its existence, but the way it’s beginning to function.

If the principle is sound, it has to stay within its limits:
to supply, not to control.


BINGO.
The SAJM is directly against the thought of Bishop Williamson on this matter. They even seem to admit it in fr brocards statement.
I will fight tooth and nail with anyone who says otherwise.
They won't try, most likely, because they can't prove they are consistent with Bishop Williamson.

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #43 on: Today at 04:58:55 AM »
Supplied jurisdiction and supplied authority are not exactly the same. They don't sound the same to me.

It seems that they are actually tending towards schism and establishing a kind of parallell hierarchy, not in line with the Sedevacante state, nor with the R&R principles.

A most surprising and strange development. It seems that Bp. Williamson's presence guaranteed a certain chaos, in a good sense. They were embarassed to go against his "herding cats principle". Not that he is gone, they are trying to herd cats indeed, and it is becoming an even greater mess.

Exactly
💯 

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #44 on: Today at 09:01:15 AM »
I recall reading that in the rite of consecration of Bishops, it states the purpose of the Episcopate quite clearly: 

“A bishop judges, interprets, consecrates, ordains, offers, baptizes and confirms.”

“Grant to him, O Lord, an Episcopal chair for ruling Thy Church and the people committed to him. Be his authority, be his power, be his strength.”

I simply do not understand this concept of the Novus Ordo possessing the true authority. They don't have the Faith. Maybe I am misunderstanding or taking what others say too literally.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.”
— Galatians 1:8, DRB

Furthermore, the sacred and holy Synod teaches, that, in the ordination of bishops, priests, and of the other orders, neither the consent, nor vocation, nor authority, whether of the people, or of any civil power or magistrate whatsoever, is required in such wise as that, without this, the ordination is invalid: yea rather doth It decree, that all those who, being only called and instituted by the people, or by the civil power and magistrate, ascend to the exercise of these ministrations, and those who of their own rashness assume them to themselves, are not ministers of the church, but are to be looked upon as thieves and robbers, who have not entered by the door. — Council of Trent, Session 23, Chapter 4

Isn't this "door", the Faith?

I am not trying to provoke anyone, I am honestly wondering about these things. Isn't it the Faith that is the source of true authority in the Church (not rhetorical questions)? By authority, I mean the authority to dispense the sacraments, and the authority to teach and govern the faithful.