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Author Topic: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM  (Read 4137 times)

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Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 01:04:53 PM »
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Though whether it comes from the Pope as the ultimate source or from the Divine nature of the Church itself is a theological question is be interested to read about. I have certainly never heard of hierarchy in a state of emergency in any case
Jurisdiction cannot come from the "Church." It can only come from the Pope. This is the only possibility since Christ created the Petrine office and communicated to it all ecclesiastical jurisdiction. The idea that jurisdiction sometimes flows abstractly from the "Church" is somewhat common but I think this is due to people confounding the nature of the Church with the nature of civil society. In a nation, there are instances in which legal authority can be spontaneously acquired, such as in the case of of a military dictator who seizes power in a coup. This is because human society is based on the existence of its citizens and the human authority of nations can be designated explicitly or implicitly by men. However, the Church is a supernatural body, the governing power of which was neither created nor bestowed by men on the leader, but rather given directly by Christ himself to St. Peter. Hence the idea that floats around sometimes that jurisdiction emanates to certain churchmen from the Church and not via the Pope is erroneous. Even supplied jurisdiction is a general faculty granted by the Pope to any priest who finds himself in requisite need of it.

I think the question of jurisdiction in today's circuмstances is quite clear-cut. Whatever, one may make of the current Roman hierarchy, be it somehow legitimate or entirely illegitimate, it is certain that recusant traditionalists do not have any form of ordinary jurisdiction. Hence there can be no kind of hierarchy in Tradition, save for some kind of moral order that bishops and priests self-impose. Otherwise, were the clergy to draw the asinine conclusion that because the Church needs to function trads must then have jurisdiction, we would witness the greatest of absurdities. 

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 03:24:18 PM »
Jurisdiction cannot come from the "Church." It can only come from the Pope. This is the only possibility since Christ created the Petrine office and communicated to it all ecclesiastical jurisdiction. The idea that jurisdiction sometimes flows abstractly from the "Church" is somewhat common but I think this is due to people confounding the nature of the Church with the nature of civil society. In a nation, there are instances in which legal authority can be spontaneously acquired, such as in the case of of a military dictator who seizes power in a coup. This is because human society is based on the existence of its citizens and the human authority of nations can be designated explicitly or implicitly by men. However, the Church is a supernatural body, the governing power of which was neither created nor bestowed by men on the leader, but rather given directly by Christ himself to St. Peter. Hence the idea that floats around sometimes that jurisdiction emanates to certain churchmen from the Church and not via the Pope is erroneous. Even supplied jurisdiction is a general faculty granted by the Pope to any priest who finds himself in requisite need of it.

I think the question of jurisdiction in today's circuмstances is quite clear-cut. Whatever, one may make of the current Roman hierarchy, be it somehow legitimate or entirely illegitimate, it is certain that recusant traditionalists do not have any form of ordinary jurisdiction. Hence there can be no kind of hierarchy in Tradition, save for some kind of moral order that bishops and priests self-impose. Otherwise, were the clergy to draw the asinine conclusion that because the Church needs to function trads must then have jurisdiction, we would witness the greatest of absurdities.


You've completely misunderstood what I said by assuming I was some kind of democratic retard. A five minute search of my posts would show I would clearly understand I was clearly communicating something more intelligent than what you assumed.

Formal cause, efficient cause.

But I might be losing you there. 

Maybe netflix might be more to your level.


Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 03:54:34 PM »

You've completely misunderstood what I said by assuming I was some kind of democratic retard. A five minute search of my posts would show I would clearly understand I was clearly communicating something more intelligent than what you assumed.

Formal cause, efficient cause.

But I might be losing you there.

Maybe netflix might be more to your level.
Pardon my response. In retrospect, perhaps my tone was a bit patronizing.

Anyway, formal cause/efficient cause? Care to elaborate?

Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #68 on: Yesterday at 03:58:33 PM »
Pardon my response. In retrospect, perhaps my tone was a bit patronizing.

Anyway, formal cause/efficient cause? Care to elaborate?

I was MERELY pondering, about the question of whether the Pope was the formal or efficient cause. I don't know.

Offline MaterDominici

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Re: Brazilian Resistance Seminary Now SAJM
« Reply #69 on: Yesterday at 06:24:57 PM »
Let’s take a specific case: Fr. Deivid Nass.
If you're familiar enough with the situation to cite it as an example, can you give us a timeline?