Author Topic: Bp.Williamson May Be Gone, But Ill Still Receive the Sacraments From SSPX (Read 4230 times)

s2srea · « **on:** October 24, 2012, 11:07:04 PM »

I wanted to make something clear, lest others who may not think this through completely jump on a 'since I want nothing to do with SSPX, I'll just not get the sacraments till +Williamson has a new group who comes to a town near me!'. I hope this isn't the case, but if it is, and you're devoid of the sacraments because of it, please reconsider your position.

I have a few SSPX, CMRI and Independent mass centers around me. I'm not a sede, so don't go to the CMRI for sacraments unless I need to. If they were the only option, I would have no problem with them. The independent priests around here are not concerned with validity, so they're out. Though I am less than impressed, to say the least, with Menzingen and +Fellay groupies, I will still receive the sacraments from the priests at my local Mass centers. They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop. Once one of these things changes- then I have a reason to look elsewhere. If you don't have the CMRI or another valid priest in your area, please do the same, and don't cut yourself off from the sacraments!

God Bless Bishop Williamson!

Incredulous · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2012, 12:09:59 AM »

Sure, the SSPX is convenient with a lot of well-formed priests.

The inevitable trajedy is, the largest trad order, is being hijacked by newRome with insider help and we can't stop it.

But the cracks in the neoSSPX are begining to show.

The denial of absolutions at the Kansas parish, posted today; the new mortal sin of going-on sossaveoursspx.com and the dialogue Masses are taking their toll.

Most of us have already scouted out our neighboring TLM venues and are deciding when, not if... to change our Mass routines.

John Grace · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2012, 06:32:22 AM »

There was too much of this "Did Bishop Fellay really say this" and the blind obedience kept many muzzled.

Now, with Bishop Williamson expelled, I do hope people have woken up to what Bishop Fellay and his gang are all about.

Meanwhile
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11198

Quote

Hit Them Where it Hurts Them Most!

Withdrawal of Donations and Project Funding and Legacies. Only Pennies in the Plate.

Withdrawal of Practical Assistance: Tea Rooms, Book Repositories, Chauffering, Cleaning, Flowers, Cooking

Let them Whine Instead of Wine!

Force Them to Stand Up and Act.

All Funding and Assistance Should Be Directed to:

Bishop Williamson via Eleison Comments PayPal
http://www.dinoscopus.org/

Fr's Chazal and Pfeifer
c/o Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church
1730 N. Stillwell Road
Boston, Kentucky 40107
USA

Benedictine Monastery of the Holy Cross via PayPal
dan_rp1@hotmail.com

bowler · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:23:21 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

I wanted to make something clear, lest others who may not think this through completely jump on a 'since I want nothing to do with SSPX, I'll just not get the sacraments till +Williamson has a new group who comes to a town near me!'. I hope this isn't the case, but if it is, and you're devoid of the sacraments because of it, please reconsider your position.

.... Though I am less than impressed, to say the least, with Menzingen and +Fellay groupies, I will still receive the sacraments from the priests at my local Mass centers. They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop. Once one of these things changes- then I have a reason to look elsewhere. If you don't have the CMRI or another valid priest in your area, please do the same, and don't cut yourself off from the sacraments!

Agreed. But while you are there, teach the people what is going on. You may eventually tell the wrong person, and get thrown out, but so what? If one has no children it is a no risk move. If they have many children, it's different, harder, and if they depend on the SSPX to school their children, it will be the hardest.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:27:01 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop.

There's every reason to stop. If you're on a ship and the captain is visibly steering it into a fatal collision with an iceberg, is it prudent to continue to just sit and order from deckhands just because the captain's has a wall full of citations and been doing his job a long while?

Quote from: s2srea

God Bless Bishop Williamson!

God bless him indeed, and lead him to an association of pious and faithful priests joyfully out from under the thumb of the mendacious and seditious dictator Bernard Fellay.

Adolphus · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:27:38 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

I will still receive the sacraments from the priests at my local Mass centers. They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop. Once one of these things changes- then I have a reason to look elsewhere.

When I read this comment, I couldn't avoid recalling these words:

Quote from: +Fellay's Letter to Friends & Benefactors #63

“Little by little one gives up the fight and ends by accepting the situation. Everything in Campos still looks traditional, no doubt, so that the people see nothing different. The shrewder ones among them, however, note the tendency of the priests to speak more often and respectfully about news from Rome, omitting their past warnings and ignoring the present day deviations. To become accustomed to this situation and to cease to correct it is a great danger.”

In this, +Fellay is right: it is a great danger to become accustomed to the current situation; it is a great danger to be taught that BXVI is a pope with traditional heart but modernist head; it is a great danger to attend chapels where priests prepare the spirits to welcome a deal, according to +de Galarreta writing...

s2srea · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:29:23 AM »

Quote from: JohnGrey

Quote from: s2srea
They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop.

There's every reason to stop. If you're on a ship and the captain is visibly steering it into a fatal collision with an iceberg, is it prudent to continue to just sit and order from deckhands just because the captain's has a wall full of citations and been doing his job a long while?

Actually, no, there is no reason to stop if it will leave you devoid of the sacraments. And that's my point. Your analogy doesn't work here. I think a better one would be taking food from a devil-worshiping temple. If there was no food around, no other options, and I wasn't forced to bow down and apostatize, I would still eat the food from there, until a Catholic church came to my neighborhood and set up shop with food donations. Now, if those pagan devil worshipers beat you with a stick and whip every time you go for food, thats a different story- but thats not what's happening the majority of the time.

Quote

Quote from: s2srea
God Bless Bishop Williamson!

God bless him indeed, and lead him to an association of pious and faithful priests joyfully out from under the thumb of the mendacious and seditious dictator Bernard Fellay.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:55:33 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Actually, no, there is no reason to stop if it will leave you devoid of the sacraments. And that's my point. Your analogy doesn't work here. I think a better one would be taking food from a devil-worshiping temple. If there was no food around, no other options, and I wasn't forced to bow down and apostatize, I would still eat the food from there, until a Catholic church came to my neighborhood and set up shop with food donations. Now, if those pagan devil worshipers beat you with a stick and whip every time you go for food, thats a different story- but thats not what's happening the majority of the time.

No, it's your analogy that doesn't work. Your original post admitted that there are other valid sacraments available, namely the CMRI, but that you won't use them because you don't subscribe to sedevacantism. From this, we must conclude that you have more problem with the theological opinion of sedevacantism, which the CMRI does not require one to hold in order to receive the sacraments of the Church, than with the intention of Fellay and Menzingen to rejoin the apostate antichurch and accept the heresies of Vatican II, which increasingly, either through vocal assent or the sin of silence, are a requirement to receive the sacraments of the Church from the SSPX clergy. That's your choice, naturally, but call a spade a spade.

Roland Deschain · « **Reply #8 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:07:04 AM »

Quote from: JohnGrey

Quote from: s2srea
They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop.

There's every reason to stop. If you're on a ship and the captain is visibly steering it into a fatal collision with an iceberg, is it prudent to continue to just sit and order from deckhands just because the captain's has a wall full of citations and been doing his job a long while?

Quote from: s2srea
God Bless Bishop Williamson!

God bless him indeed, and lead him to an association of pious and faithful priests joyfully out from under the thumb of the mendacious and seditious dictator Bernard Fellay.

When did His Excellency get stripped of his Episcopal office? Agree with him or not it is unbecoming a Catholic to refer to a bishop of the Church in this fashion.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #9 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:14:15 AM »

Quote from: Roland Deschain

Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: s2srea
They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop.

There's every reason to stop. If you're on a ship and the captain is visibly steering it into a fatal collision with an iceberg, is it prudent to continue to just sit and order from deckhands just because the captain's has a wall full of citations and been doing his job a long while?

Quote from: s2srea
God Bless Bishop Williamson!

God bless him indeed, and lead him to an association of pious and faithful priests joyfully out from under the thumb of the mendacious and seditious dictator Bernard Fellay.

When did His Excellency get stripped of his Episcopal office? Agree with him or not it is unbecoming a Catholic to refer to a bishop of the Church in this fashion.

Just as it is unbecoming of a Catholic bishop attempting to muzzle and bully a fellow bishop of greater personal sanctity and orthodoxy in the name of treating with heretics, most especially when his leadership over a pious union does not afford him the authority to do so. And I call him dictator rather than bishop in my missive because it is not his office but his tyranny that I cannot abide.

Roland Deschain · « **Reply #10 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:22:32 AM »

Quote from: JohnGrey

Quote from: Roland Deschain
Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: s2srea
They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop.

There's every reason to stop. If you're on a ship and the captain is visibly steering it into a fatal collision with an iceberg, is it prudent to continue to just sit and order from deckhands just because the captain's has a wall full of citations and been doing his job a long while?

Quote from: s2srea
God Bless Bishop Williamson!

God bless him indeed, and lead him to an association of pious and faithful priests joyfully out from under the thumb of the mendacious and seditious dictator Bernard Fellay.

When did His Excellency get stripped of his Episcopal office? Agree with him or not it is unbecoming a Catholic to refer to a bishop of the Church in this fashion.

Just as it is unbecoming of a Catholic bishop attempting to muzzle and bully a fellow bishop of greater personal sanctity and orthodoxy in the name of treating with heretics, most especially when his leadership over a pious union does not afford him the authority to do so. And I call him dictator rather than bishop in my missive because it is not his office but his tyranny that I cannot abide.[/quote]

Granted, but he is still a bishop and should be called such.

I don't want to derail the thread. I'll let it go at that.

s2srea · « **Reply #11 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:31:20 AM »

Quote from: JohnGrey

Quote from: s2srea

Actually, no, there is no reason to stop if it will leave you devoid of the sacraments. And that's my point. Your analogy doesn't work here. I think a better one would be taking food from a devil-worshiping temple. If there was no food around, no other options, and I wasn't forced to bow down and apostatize, I would still eat the food from there, until a Catholic church came to my neighborhood and set up shop with food donations. Now, if those pagan devil worshipers beat you with a stick and whip every time you go for food, thats a different story- but thats not what's happening the majority of the time.

No, it's your analogy that doesn't work. Your original post admitted that there are other valid sacraments available, namely the CMRI, but that you won't use them because you don't subscribe to sedevacantism. From this, we must conclude that you have more problem with the theological opinion of sedevacantism, which the CMRI does not require one to hold in order to receive the sacraments of the Church, than with the intention of Fellay and Menzingen to rejoin the apostate antichurch and accept the heresies of Vatican II, which increasingly, either through vocal assent or the sin of silence, are a requirement to receive the sacraments of the Church from the SSPX clergy. That's your choice, naturally, but call a spade a spade.

Perhaps you might read the original post again JohnGrey. I said I would obtain the sacraments from CMRI if I had to, but since the SSPX priests where I live have done nothing wrong so far, there is no reason I should not attend there. This has nothing to do with what the CMRI requires or not.

It has to do with a mentality of keeping people receiving the sacraments- and up to this point if its SSPX, CMRI or independent, it doesn't matter to me. I was simply stating my preference up to this point- if the priests at the SSPX begin preaching in a manner not consistent with the Archbishop or the Truth, I would gladly attend CMRI, or Independent, however, others may not have that opportunity.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #12 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:43:46 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Perhaps you might read the original post again JohnGrey. I said I would obtain the sacraments from CMRI if I had to, but since the SSPX priests where I live have done nothing wrong so far, there is no reason I should not attend there. This has nothing to do with what the CMRI requires or not.

It has to do with a mentality of keeping people receiving the sacraments- and up to this point if its SSPX, CMRI or independent, it doesn't matter to me. I was simply stating my preference up to this point- if the priests at the SSPX begin preaching in a manner not consistent with the Archbishop or the Truth, I would gladly attend CMRI, or Independent, however, others may not have that opportunity.

Though the mentality of maintaining access of the faithful to sacraments is abstractly laudable, as I see it, whether the message of Menzingen is being vocally preached or not is a distinction without a difference. Is it reasonable to assume, the culpability of your priest, if he has should he remain silent in the face of this travesty, being disregarded, that the chapel in question in financially acephalous? If this is the case, then I withdraw my complaint. If it is not the case, then you must admit that at least portion of your financial support for the Society is materially being used to further the Archbishop's life's work being sold into slavery.

John Grace · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2012, 10:49:20 AM »

Quote

but since the SSPX priests where I live have done nothing wrong so far, there is no reason I should not attend there

Have they responded or made comment in relation to the expulsion of Bishop Williamson?

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #14 on:** October 25, 2012, 11:36:24 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

I wanted to make something clear, lest others who may not think this through completely jump on a 'since I want nothing to do with SSPX, I'll just not get the sacraments till +Williamson has a new group who comes to a town near me!'. I hope this isn't the case, but if it is, and you're devoid of the sacraments because of it, please reconsider your position.

I have a few SSPX, CMRI and Independent mass centers around me. I'm not a sede, so don't go to the CMRI for sacraments unless I need to. If they were the only option, I would have no problem with them. The independent priests around here are not concerned with validity, so they're out. Though I am less than impressed, to say the least, with Menzingen and +Fellay groupies, I will still receive the sacraments from the priests at my local Mass centers. They still teach the Faith, they're valid and there's no real reason to stop. Once one of these things changes- then I have a reason to look elsewhere. If you don't have the CMRI or another valid priest in your area, please do the same, and don't cut yourself off from the sacraments!

God Bless Bishop Williamson!

I'm sorry, but I do not understand your intention here. How can the independent
priests not be concerned with validity?

They administer sacraments, but don't care if they are valid?
They say Mass but are unconcerned with whether the hosts are consecrated or not?
They hear confessions but have no concern over the forgiveness of sins?
They baptize but they don't bother to use water because they're unconcerned?
They bless Holy Water but they leave out one word that you think determines
the validity of the blessing and therefore you believe they don't care if the
Holy Water is blessed or not?

Or, are you saying that when you ask them about their ordination as you attempt
to pass judgment on its 'validity' they give you an answer that you misinterpret
as indicating that they MUST NOT be therefore concerned with 'validity' as you
understand it, in your misinformed subjectivist reality?

Please clarify.