Author Topic: Bp. Williamson controversy about emotional woman and Novus Ordo Mass (Read 36050 times)

JPaul · « **Reply #240 on:** August 02, 2015, 04:49:26 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: J.Paul
You know, this whole sectarian "I gotta stick up for my guy", R&R vs the SEDE business is really getting old.

THIS ^^^

+1000

I get savaged by both sides because I accept some arguments from each side.

I'd put a HUGE CHUNK OF MONEY on it that if Bishop Fellay had said the exact same thing he would have been absolutely ripped to shreds by the exact same Resistance people defending Bishop Williamson now.

Agreed, both of their attitudes about many of these issues are essentially the same, save the extent to which each would go on the recognize and resist scale.
This all comes down to partisan politics, and in the end, no more than a distraction.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #241 on:** August 02, 2015, 06:04:16 PM »

lad:

Quote

I get savaged by both sides because I accept some arguments from each side.

We're all striving to achieve your balance, lad. :shocked:

lad:

Quote

I'd put a HUGE CHUNK OF MONEY on it that if Bishop Fellay had said the exact same thing he would have been absolutely ripped to shreds by the exact same Resistance people defending Bishop Williamson now.

Then you should stick with +Fellay and his Society. Perhaps you have not yet separated yourself from Fellay's SSPX. But if along the way you have, I'm sure a simple apology in writing would get you reinstated immediately. You don't seem to be very happy with Bp. Williamson. You should probably have nothing more to do with him and look elsewhere.

BTW, how do you suppose, lad, that Bp. Fellay would have responded to this woman's question? You raise an interesting point. Please do a bit of speculating, if,of course, it doesn't do violence to your sensus catholicus. Would +F have flashed the 'red light' in this woman's face; or would he have approached her with a bit more tact and discretion. You have introduced what could easily become another thread topic. e.g. "How would +Fellay have answered the woman?"

Ladislaus · « **Reply #242 on:** August 03, 2015, 11:19:37 AM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

You don't seem to be very happy with Bp. Williamson. You should probably have nothing more to do with him and look elsewhere.

This is exactly the all-or-nothing cult stupidity that J.Paul was lamenting. If I happen to disagree with +Williamson on a particular issue or statement, then suddenly I have to completely throw +Williamson overboard? I should think that we can all be mature Catholic adults about this. I am entitled to disagree with Bishop Williamson on a particular issue here or there without having to cast him wholesale into the "modernist", "heretic", "schismatic" refuse bin. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Bishop Williamson. I also owe him a great personal debt of gratitude for his years of formation, spiritual direction, mentorship, and education at St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary. I pray for him every day with great affection in return for all that His Excellency has done for me. That doesn't mean I have to believe in Dawn Marie, Maria Valtorta, Garabandal, or must withhold thinking that it's wrong to say that attending the NOM is OK or stating that +Williamson needed to explain the distinctions involved here in order to prevent confusion.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #243 on:** August 03, 2015, 12:10:28 PM »

No problem, lad. It's just that I don't recall you ever having much good to say about Bp. Williamson in the past. So it seemed logical to suggest that you simply distance yourself from him and find refuge elsewhere. I didn't mean intentionally to express a cult mentality in all this. After all, I think most will admit, traditional Catholicism has already splintered into a number of little cults. You hadn't noticed? I think H.E. recognizes this. He is not about trying to herd a bunch of headstrong 'cats' into his little fold, under the banner of his leadership. So that's why I felt free to invite you to look for spiritual solace and comfort elsewhere. I am sorry at this point not to be able to suggest another bishop, (or bishops) about whom you might feel less critical. You might try Bp. Sanborn or some other sedevacant bishop. There is still a line of Cardinal Siri bishops, they tell me, who might be worth looking into. Also, a viable alternative might be your own diocesan bishop or one nearby who allows the indult from time to time. But, as I have said before, there is always Bp. Fellay, and the other two sspx bishops. They do offer a visible structure. They seem to be well endowed and well organized, bearing the Lefebvrian name, if not exactly the Lefebvrian legacy. I just want you to be happy, lad. You shouldn't have to put up with a bishop who makes frequent references to Maria Valtorta, Dawn Marie and Garabandal. You need to be liberated from all that. You need to go forward in a positive way with a bishop, or bishops, of your choice. :smile:

Histrionics · « **Reply #244 on:** August 03, 2015, 04:07:25 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

No problem, lad. It's just that I don't recall you ever having much good to say about Bp. Williamson in the past. So it seemed logical to suggest that you simply distance yourself from him and find refuge elsewhere. I didn't mean intentionally to express a cult mentality in all this. After all, I think most will admit, traditional Catholicism has already splintered into a number of little cults. You hadn't noticed? I think H.E. recognizes this. He is not about trying to herd a bunch of headstrong 'cats' into his little fold, under the banner of his leadership. So that's why I felt free to invite you to look for spiritual solace and comfort elsewhere. I am sorry at this point not to be able to suggest another bishop, (or bishops) about whom you might feel less critical. You might try Bp. Sanborn or some other sedevacant bishop. There is still a line of Cardinal Siri bishops, they tell me, who might be worth looking into. Also, a viable alternative might be your own diocesan bishop or one nearby who allows the indult from time to time. But, as I have said before, there is always Bp. Fellay, and the other two sspx bishops. They do offer a visible structure. They seem to be well endowed and well organized, bearing the Lefebvrian name, if not exactly the Lefebvrian legacy. I just want you to be happy, lad. You shouldn't have to put up with a bishop who makes frequent references to Maria Valtorta, Dawn Marie and Garabandal. You need to be liberated from all that. You need to go forward in a positive way with a bishop, or bishops, of your choice. :smile:

His explanation was completely reasonable, and despite your insincere "not meaning to express a cult mentality," you're intent on his exiting your "cult" of choice if he doesn't blindly follow a singular personality/organization, none of whom possess any actual authority in the first place. How nonsectarian of you.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #245 on:** August 03, 2015, 06:32:07 PM »

histrionics:

Quote

His explanation was completely reasonable, and despite your insincere "not meaning to express a cult mentality," you're intent on his exiting your "cult" of choice if he doesn't blindly follow a singular personality/organization, none of whom possess any actual authority in the first place. How nonsectarian of you

.

Well, histrion, I can't very well agree that ladislaus was "completely reasonable," when I have concluded, at the heart of it, based upon a number of past interactions with this individual, that he's something of a poseur. He testifies as to his great respect for Bp. Williamson. I have never seen any real demonstration of that respect. Judas protested his great love and devotion for Our Lord. But in the end he betrayed Him for thirty pieces of silver. I think ladislaus would happily betray Bp. Williamson for a lot less- for nothing, in fact. He takes gratuitous shots at the bishop with some regularity, and he doesn't ask a penny for it.

JPaul · « **Reply #246 on:** August 03, 2015, 07:17:42 PM »

I too have a great respect and affection for the Bishop but, that is not a a factor in judging the validity of some of his positions or the logic involved in some statements which occur in his EC's.

Also, H.E. is an SSPX formed and trained cleric. They all share a common outlook on particular theological and practical matters, which at times is moderate and middle of the road. That is just the way it is. You can't stand too harshly in judgment over that reality but, you can from time to time take notice as to how it informs their opinions.

That is not a sign that you have it in for them. unless you have a partisan outlook.