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Offline Matthew

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Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
« on: March 05, 2019, 08:34:53 AM »
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  • Source: Bishop Williamson (skip to 8:10 mark)

    Bishop Huonder to consecrate 2 new bishops for the SSPX, including Fr. Bouchacourt. According to His Excellency, there will be 2 co-consecrators from among the bishops of the SSPX.

    See 48+ other documented proofs of changes in the SSPX proving the Resistance correct:
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/


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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #1 on: March 05, 2019, 08:40:01 AM »
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  • Yep.  Just like the Church's enemies cut off grace to the world by invalidating the Novus Ordo Sacraments, they are now going to finish the job by invalidating the SSPX Sacraments.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: March 05, 2019, 08:44:39 AM »
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  • Yep.  Just like the Church's enemies cut off grace to the world by invalidating the Novus Ordo Sacraments, they are now going to finish the job by invalidating the SSPX Sacraments.


    And the SSPX is the 800 lb gorilla of Tradition. That is to say, if you took out the SSPX you'd take out most of Tradition. I think the SSPX is 4X larger (at least) than all the other small groups, sedevacantists, and independent chapels put together.

    FSSP would probably be #2, if you count them as Traditional. I don't, for good reason. From the very beginning of the Trad movement, permission from the Modernists was NOT part of the movement. On the contrary! It was all about emergency jurisdiction, keeping the Faith outside the official structures, aloofness from the Conciliar Church (the New Mass, any any priests/bishops ordained in the new Rite), knowledge that Freemasons were behind Vatican II, etc.

    FSSP (and now, the SSPX) says that Vatican II was just mis-interpreted. It's mostly Catholic, and the rest should be interpreted via Pope Benedict's "Hermeneutic of Continuity". BIG DIFFERENCE. If it was all a misunderstanding, then the Conciliar Church is so many LOST SHEEP: let's get ourselves in there and help them straighten it out! But if Rome is Freemason (diabolical enemy) occupied territory, then the Conciliar Church is occupied by WOLVES and we have to proceed differently -- it would certainly be madness to place ourselves under their authority in any way!

    I hate adding more divisions or being less than "trad-cumenical", but I have to admit the FSSP really doesn't qualify as Trad. They are more "conservative Catholic" or "Latin Mass preferring Catholic".

    In opposition to Bp. Fellay, I'd say that for TRAD Catholics, Vatican II *is* a boogeyman to be completely avoided. It IS a superheresy, as a matter of fact. The fact that he (and the entire SSPX leadership) mocks these tenets of Tradition is enough to leave the SSPX immediately, in my opinion.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: March 05, 2019, 09:09:56 AM »
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  • Yep.  Just like the Church's enemies cut off grace to the world by invalidating the Novus Ordo Sacraments, they are now going to finish the job by invalidating the SSPX Sacraments.
    This all started when the SSPX changed their tune on the validity of the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration in 2005, so they could have their Benedict "pope".
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: March 05, 2019, 09:24:38 AM »
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  • No Vatican approved trad priest ordination has ever been performed by an old consecration rite bishop, all the consecrating bishops were consecrated by the new formula. In all of those years, since 1988, there were plenty of old formula bishops around to do the ordinations, yet not a one was used. That was always a clear sign to me that it was planned that way. Now, the new SSPX bishops are to be ordained by a new rite bishop too? 

    By their deeds you shall know them. All of the SSPX priests ordained by these new bishops will carry with them the same doubt of legitimacy as all of the presently approved priests. 

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: March 05, 2019, 09:25:38 AM »
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  • And the SSPX is the 800 lb gorilla of Tradition. That is to say, if you took out the SSPX you'd take out most of Tradition. I think the SSPX is 4X larger (at least) than all the other small groups, sedevacantists, and independent chapels put together.

    Yes, it's by far the most cohesive organization.  If you take out the SSPX, the remainder begins to look much like how the Thuc episcopal lines have proliferated, with a significant amount of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: March 05, 2019, 09:29:37 AM »
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  • Yes, it's by far the most cohesive organization.  If you take out the SSPX, the remainder begins to look much like how the Thuc episcopal lines have proliferated, with a significant amount of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.


    Yes, but that's why I support the Resistance -- it's basically the old SSPX, albeit in the 1970's (read: SMALL with a bit more variety of opinions).

    With the Resistance you know what you're getting (SSPX quality formation, completely valid ordination from a Bishop consecrated the old Rite, etc.)

    Bishop Faure's seminary is going to produce priests as good as the old school SSPX. With the traditional Dominicans helping with the formation, I really look forward to the priests who will come out of that seminary!

    I've attended several Masses with Fr. Reginald Brocard, OP and let me tell you -- the Dominicans are awesome when it comes to theology. Having them on our side is all I need to know that the Resistance is in-the-right.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: March 05, 2019, 09:31:37 AM »
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  • No Vatican approved trad priest ordination has ever been performed by an old consecration rite bishop, all the consecrating bishops were consecrated by the new formula. In all of those years, since 1988, there were plenty of old formula bishops around to do the ordinations, yet not a one was used. That was always a clear sign to me that it was planned that way. Now, the new SSPX bishops are to be ordained by a new rite bishop too?

    I think this was being done on purpose too.  So, for instance, most of the Novus Ordo Mass translations likely invalidated the consecration with the "for all" translation (as appeared in the vast majority of vernacular versions).  Then a couple years ago they finally brought back the "for many".  Why, suddenly?  Well, I theorize that it's because by that time very very few priests remained active who had been ordained in the Old Rite.  So now that the Holy Orders has been invalidated, they stopped caring about the actual Rite of Mass anymore.

    See, there are two philosphies regarding the origins of this crisis.  One is that it just developed organically due to a gradual loss of faith in the hierarchy.  Another is that it was a planned demolition put deliberately into play by the Church's enemies.  While it's certainly a combination of the two, I believe it to be primarily the latter, and I believe that they are still in control and still actively guiding their demolition.  I don't believe in the "auto-demolition" thesis.  With Our Lord, I say, "an enemy hath done this."  This is key, because, if you believe the latter, as I do, there can be NO QUESTION of any kind of unification talks until these enemies have been uprooted and eliminated.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: March 05, 2019, 09:34:19 AM »
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  • Yes, but that's why I support the Resistance -- it's basically the old SSPX, albeit in the 1970's (read: SMALL with a bit more variety of opinions).

    With the Resistance you know what you're getting (SSPX quality formation, completely valid ordination from a Bishop consecrated the old Rite, etc.)

    Bishop Faure's seminary is going to produce priests as good as the old school SSPX. With the traditional Dominicans helping with the formation, I really look forward to the priests who will come out of that seminary!

    I've attended several Masses with Fr. Reginald Brocard, OP and let me tell you -- the Dominicans are awesome when it comes to theology. Having them on our side is all I need to know that the Resistance is in-the-right.

    Agreed.  I suspect that Bishop Faure's seminary will become the new Econe.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: March 05, 2019, 09:37:05 AM »
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  • Yes, but that's why I support the Resistance -- it's basically the old SSPX, albeit in the 1970's (read: SMALL with a bit more variety of opinions).

    With the Resistance you know what you're getting (SSPX quality formation, completely valid ordination from a Bishop consecrated the old Rite, etc.)

    Bishop Faure's seminary is going to produce priests as good as the old school SSPX. With the traditional Dominicans helping with the formation, I really look forward to the priests who will come out of that seminary!

    I've attended several Masses with Fr. Reginald Brocard, OP and let me tell you -- the Dominicans are awesome when it comes to theology. Having them on our side is all I need to know that the Resistance is in-the-right.
    I"m curious:  Since the SSPX changed their tune on the NREC in 2005, wasn't this before the Resistance broke away?  It is my understanding that the Resistance only consecrates and ordains in the Old Rite....so when/why did the Resistance go back to not believing the NREC is valid?
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: March 05, 2019, 10:02:44 AM »
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  • Validity would not be the problem.

    Assuming an episcopal consecration were done in the traditional rite with at least one of the two co-consecrators being a SSPX bishop from 1988, there would be no doubt about the validity of the bishop consecrated, even if someone had doubts about the principle consecrator.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: March 05, 2019, 10:52:09 AM »
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  • Validity would not be the problem.

    Assuming an episcopal consecration were done in the traditional rite with at least one of the two co-consecrators being a SSPX bishop from 1988, there would be no doubt about the validity of the bishop consecrated, even if someone had doubts about the principle consecrator.
    Not all the details of the consecration have been announced yet.
    Who else is going to be consecrated, and is it official that there will be co-consecrators? 
    +Williamson might have been fed false information, you never know.

    You're right; even one valid bishop would be enough to confer orders. I would assume the SSPX would slip in a request to have +Fellay and maybe others be there, "just for the heck of it" which would keep the Trad faithful happy.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: March 05, 2019, 11:12:42 AM »
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  • Validity would not be the problem.

    Assuming an episcopal consecration were done in the traditional rite with at least one of the two co-consecrators being a SSPX bishop from 1988, there would be no doubt about the validity of the bishop consecrated, even if someone had doubts about the principle consecrator.

    Yes, as Matthew said, all the details are conjecture.  Of course this entire thread comes from some information that got to +Williamson ... and that too might be unreliable.  So perhaps this entire thread is purely speculative.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: March 05, 2019, 11:14:20 AM »
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  • Validity would not be the problem.

    Assuming an episcopal consecration were done in the traditional rite with at least one of the two co-consecrators being a SSPX bishop from 1988, there would be no doubt about the validity of the bishop consecrated, even if someone had doubts about the principle consecrator.
    That is correct of course, however, from previous experience with the other Ecclesia Dei trad groups, that has never been the case, they have ALL been ordained by a new formula bishop. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp. Huonder to consecrate 2 Bishops for SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: March 05, 2019, 11:16:14 AM »
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  • Yes, as Matthew said, all the details are conjecture.  Of course this entire thread comes from some information that got to +Williamson ... and that too might be unreliable.  So perhaps this entire thread is purely speculative.

    Yes, but it's called-for speculation.
    Eventually the SSPX has to address the bishop issue. Thus far, they have sworn off all +Lefebvre/+Williamson style "emergency" consecrations of Traditional bishops. So either the SSPX will get one from Rome (now that they've practically re-united and made a deal with Rome) or die off completely. Only those 2 options.
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