Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: hollingsworth on July 20, 2016, 03:41:00 PM
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Meg asks on another thread: Is it possible that Bp. Fellay has been influenced by a seer (Marian?) of some sort? I seem to recall that he's been influenced in the past. That's all that I can think of that might account for his strange stance, and that he doesn't address the obvious contradiction.
Thanks, Meg, for the lead-in to a new topic, which, I think, may help to answer your question.
Just this morning my attention was directed to the Spanish online source Non Possumus. Meg’s suspicions, I think, are well confirmed in recent articles appearing there. Some of you know Spanish, and your knowledge will be greatly enriched by reading this material. Others will just have to take my word for what follows. My Spanish isn’t great, but I think I can give you all a brief introduction to a smattering of its contents. English translations are often provided for blog content anyway.
It seems that back in 1995(?) Bp. Fellay was introduced to a (self-proclaimed?) woman mystic, who went by the pseudonym ‘Madame Rossinier.’ Her real name was Germaine Connaz. She’s dead now. Anyway, a youg Swiss priest, Father Lovey, made the introductions. ( He is the son, reportedly, of the man who originally convinced Abp Lefebvfre to consecrate +F as a bishop.)
Fr. Lovey tells us that the mystic’s writings over a period of 22 years were compiled into 21 “Notebooks,” which served, along with other works, to inspire the activities of an already existing (?) diocesan movement called ‘Homes of Christ-Priest.’ Clumsy sounding, I know, but that’s how I translate its name out of Spanish.
+Fellay, apparently, was quite taken by the woman. In a Letter to Friends and Benefactors #51 in 1996, he encouraged families to join this “magnificent work.” Evidently, this “mensajera del Cielo,” this “privilegiada del Cielo,” conveyed to the Superior General a very attractive message, viz. that SSPX was the chosen instrument by which God would eventually restore the Church to her ancient, pre-Conciliar orthodox tradition. The idea most certainly appealed to +Fellay, and, it appears, he swallowed the mystic’s blandishments hook line and sinker.
Later, in 1998, in No. 60 of Cor Unum, +Fellay wrote “in terms full of conviction enthusiasm,” what amounted to a full endorsement of Madame Rossinier’s “divine messages.” Yes, he recognized that they fell into the category of private revelation. But, golly, when one merely scratched a bit under the surface of them, one was confronted with a “treasure of grace.”
He assured the faithful that her mystic works were “invested with sufficient authenticity that they might have no doubt (about them).” He encouraged the faithful to “accept with thanksgiving” the “gift” which her writings offered to them.
This is not hearsay. This stuff is in print. +Fellay has left a clear paper trail. I encourage folks to go to Non Possumus at http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/
Click on specific articles on the subject:
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/07/madame-rossiniere-monsenor-fellay-y-la.html
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2013/09/monsenor-fellay-y-madame-rossiniere-un.html
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2013/09/la-fsspx-y-madame-rossiniere-el.html
Several priests tried to warn Bp. Fellay about what a phony this woman was. They include Fathers Ortiz and Joly, who paid an unannounced and unexpected visit to Madame Rossinier one day at her home. They said that she came to the door in blue jeans and a “cigarro” (cigarette?) draped from her mouth(?). The woman'sTV blared in the background. These priests reported the rather unusual circuмstances of their visit to Bp. Fellay, who, reportedly, took Fr. Lovey to task, but quickly reinstated him.
(Non Possumus (NP) reminds the reader, in amusement, how the SG remonstrated with the three bishops, when, earlier, they warned him of agreeing to any practical accord with Rome. He had accused them, then, of not having a “supernatural” outlook on things.)
Bp. Fellay was peruaded that after near 30 years of the Society’s existence, the objectives of the Archbishop had still not been realized. They were, at that point, confused, perhaps, lacking a certain precision and exactitude. He thought, apparently, that the seer’s influence would help propel the Society towards the clear achievement of the still, somewhat inchoate, earlier goals of the late Archbishop. Her writings, he thought, would help disperse the mists of "imprecision" still hovering over the Society.
In Cor Unum,Message of April 16, 1998 ,Pg. 54,we discover that the seer’s “mystic inspirations” would “mark the beginning of the realization of the mission of the Fraternity.” It would be “as a (new) Pentecost in the work of Msgr. Lefebvfe.” It would be “as a field of wheat in spring, the church will germinated a new life in the world… the moment is near when everything will begin to bear fruit.”
Shades of the store front evangelist haranguing his awestruck congregation with mesmerizing language!
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I don't think +Fellay has been influenced by a seer; I think he is using the seer to influence the society. I think +Fellay wants the sspx under rome and he's trying every trick he can to make it happen. Trial and error, trial and error. He's not going to stop until the deal is done.
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Good find, Holli!
So there is a possibility that Bp. Fellay has been influenced by this seer, Madame Rossiniere.
I've only had time to view the first link so far, and it's quite recent. I used the google translate icon at near the top of the page so that it reads in English. It quotes Madame Rossiniere as saying in 1998:
"The Brotherhood has been designated to be the instrument of the restoration of tradition." (Message of1M 1998, Cor Unum 60,Suppl. P. 55)
And further down the page, there's a quote from a recent (not sure how recent exactly) communication from Fr. Couture, District Superior of Canada. He writes:
"Let me be a little more extensive this month, in order to present some of the prophetic announcements of the Virgin on the crisis of the priesthood and the priestly society to come to the rescue of the Church in their darkest hours."
I'll look at the other links when I have some time later.
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Meg asks on another thread: Is it possible that Bp. Fellay has been influenced by a seer (Marian?) of some sort? I seem to recall that he's been influenced in the past. That's all that I can think of that might account for his strange stance, and that he doesn't address the obvious contradiction.
Thanks, Meg, for the lead-in to a new topic, which, I think, may help to answer your question.
Just this morning my attention was directed to the Spanish online source Non Possumus. Meg’s suspicions, I think, are well confirmed in recent articles appearing there. Some of you know Spanish, and your knowledge will be greatly enriched by reading this material. Others will just have to take my word for what follows. My Spanish isn’t great, but I think I can give you all a brief introduction to a smattering of its contents. English translations are often provided for blog content anyway.
It seems that back in 1995(?) Bp. Fellay was introduced to a (self-proclaimed?) woman mystic, who went by the pseudonym ‘Madame Rossinier.’ Her real name was Germaine Connaz. She’s dead now. Anyway, a youg Swiss priest, Father Lovey, made the introductions. ( He is the son, reportedly, of the man who originally convinced Abp Lefebvfre to consecrate +F as a bishop.)
Fr. Lovey tells us that the mystic’s writings over a period of 22 years were compiled into 21 “Notebooks,” which served, along with other works, to inspire the activities of an already existing (?) diocesan movement called ‘Homes of Christ-Priest.’ Clumsy sounding, I know, but that’s how I translate its name out of Spanish.
+Fellay, apparently, was quite taken by the woman. In a Letter to Friends and Benefactors #51 in 1996, he encouraged families to join this “magnificent work.” Evidently, this “mensajera del Cielo,” this “privilegiada del Cielo,” conveyed to the Superior General a very attractive message, viz. that SSPX was the chosen instrument by which God would eventually restore the Church to her ancient, pre-Conciliar orthodox tradition. The idea most certainly appealed to +Fellay, and, it appears, he swallowed the mystic’s blandishments hook line and sinker.
Later, in 1998, in No. 60 of Cor Unum, +Fellay wrote “in terms full of conviction enthusiasm,” what amounted to a full endorsement of Madame Rossinier’s “divine messages.” Yes, he recognized that they fell into the category of private revelation. But, golly, when one merely scratched a bit under the surface of them, one was confronted with a “treasure of grace.”
He assured the faithful that her mystic works were “invested with sufficient authenticity that they might have no doubt (about them).” He encouraged the faithful to “accept with thanksgiving” the “gift” which her writings offered to them.
This is not hearsay. This stuff is in print. +Fellay has left a clear paper trail. I encourage folks to go to Non Possumus at http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/
Click on specific articles on the subject:
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/07/madame-rossiniere-monsenor-fellay-y-la.html
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2013/09/monsenor-fellay-y-madame-rossiniere-un.html
http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2013/09/la-fsspx-y-madame-rossiniere-el.html
Several priests tried to warn Bp. Fellay about what a phony this woman was. They include Fathers Ortiz and Joly, who paid an unannounced and unexpected visit to Madame Rossinier one day at her home. They said that she came to the door in blue jeans and a “cigarro” (cigarette?) draped from her mouth(?). The woman'sTV blared in the background. These priests reported the rather unusual circuмstances of their visit to Bp. Fellay, who, reportedly, took Fr. Lovey to task, but quickly reinstated him.
(Non Possumus (NP) reminds the reader, in amusement, how the SG remonstrated with the three bishops, when, earlier, they warned him of agreeing to any practical accord with Rome. He had accused them, then, of not having a “supernatural” outlook on things.)
Bp. Fellay was peruaded that after near 30 years of the Society’s existence, the objectives of the Archbishop had still not been realized. They were, at that point, confused, perhaps, lacking a certain precision and exactitude. He thought, apparently, that the seer’s influence would help propel the Society towards the clear achievement of the still, somewhat inchoate, earlier goals of the late Archbishop. Her writings, he thought, would help disperse the mists of "imprecision" still hovering over the Society.
In Cor Unum,Message of April 16, 1998 ,Pg. 54,we discover that the seer’s “mystic inspirations” would “mark the beginning of the realization of the mission of the Fraternity.” It would be “as a (new) Pentecost in the work of Msgr. Lefebvfe.” It would be “as a field of wheat in spring, the church will germinated a new life in the world… the moment is near when everything will begin to bear fruit.”
Shades of the store front evangelist haranguing his awestruck congregation with mesmerizing language!
Really good info and summary above. The second of the three links above has something very strange. You may have read it already. It concerns how Madame Rossiniere wanted to impose a certain charism (as in charismatic) to the Society.
In the conclusion section, the author writes:
"Madame Rossiniere, lays a foundation of a charismatic priest movement in the fraternity, because one hand the priests of this group would seek their sanctification in a particular grace linked to the immersion in the writings [of] Madame Rosinierre, and partly because this group, imbued with the ideas of the "privileged soul of Heaven" possessing an "irresistible" charisma, and absolutely necessary for the accomplishment of the mission of the Fraternity."
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That Bishop Fellay could give credence to this supposed seer is very odd.
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Meg:
That Bishop Fellay could give credence to this supposed seer is very odd.
Odd as it may be there are, apparently numbers of priests who would testify that he did just that. What is more, his own cited writings indicate that he was almost, or completely, taken in by her.
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Meg: That Bishop Fellay could give credence to this supposed seer is very odd.
Odd as it may be there are, apparently numbers of priests who would testify that he did just that. What is more, his own cited writings indicate that he was almost, or completely, taken in by her.
That he was taken in by her means that he has a serious problem with proper judgment. I guess the question is....to what extent is Bp. Fellay still influenced by Madame Rossiniere? He does use some of the same language as Madame Rossiniere to describe how the SSPX will "save" the Church.
I wonder if any of her writings are somewhere on the internet? They probably won't be in English, though.
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I remember hearing rumors that the seer had something to do with the rosary crusades, but I couldn't tell you where I heard it or how credible that rumor was unfortunately.
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So now we have two "seers"?:
(1) Madame Rossiniere
(2) Dawn Marie
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That he was taken in by her means that he has a serious problem with proper judgment.
I would like to nominate this for the "Understatement of the Year".
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That he was taken in by her means that he has a serious problem with proper judgment.
Ya think??
He has devastated the Society and had a mutiny on his watch that cost him about 100 priests, and you are asking if he has poor judgment?
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This is not hearsay. This stuff is in print. +Fellay has left a clear paper trail. I encourage folks to go to Non Possumus at http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/
For those who may be interested, Bishop Williamson's latest Eleison Comments is located at the above link, about halfway down the page. The American flag near the top of the page will need to be clicked to translate it into English.
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That he was taken in by her means that he has a serious problem with proper judgment.
I would like to nominate this for the "Understatement of the Year".
True, that.
:smirk:
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That he was taken in by her means that he has a serious problem with proper judgment.
I would like to nominate this for the "Understatement of the Year".
True, that.
:smirk:
:wink:
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The only thing influencing the bishop is hard cash. The religious angle masks his mercenary nature and nothing is ruled out that keeps the income streams flowing. Building property portfolios, chasing widows' funds and claiming a percentage of the wages of the dumb cannot be a better cash cow short of printing money and turning oneself into a charity. If the pot can be spiced by securing some special Roman connection, the balance sheet could see some phenomenal growth.
History is peppered with strange women and some clerics of the unmarried kind like to suggest they possess supernatural attributes in addition to their biological and domestic roles. I would say if they have to rely heavily on quirky inventiveness to prop up religious belief, they must feel confident that from time to time the faithful will respond to 'messages' from beyond. Church life can be boring and tedious I suppose for those not counting the material profits. Occasional unexplained happenings can be a boon.
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Later, in 1998, in No. 60 of Cor Unum, +Fellay wrote “in terms full of conviction enthusiasm,” what amounted to a full endorsement of Madame Rossinier’s “divine messages.” Yes, he recognized that they fell into the category of private revelation.
Does "private revelation" contain anything contrary to Revelation?
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http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2016/07/supuestas-revelaciones-publicadas-por_22.html
Alleged Disclosures (of Madame Rosinierre) Published by Mons. Fellay in the Cor Unum, 1998, part 3 (Google translated):
B. Christ Priest and Fraternity
21 April "(...) The Fraternity is not there to serve as a purpose to the vocation, is the vocation that has been raised by the good God to serve the purpose of the Fraternity. Holiness of priests. This vocation has been raised by Christ the priest to finally join the same grace that has raised the Fraternity: the return to the tradition of the Catholic Church, the return to the mass, the true priesthood, Single Priest (...).
May 9, 1997 "(...) The promise given to our vocation is this: a deep love for Christ the Priest, a life suspended in his intimate presence, interior, a constant need for this powerful friend, the need to leave it on through other...
Grace is offered, it is transmitted through the Works: The "Home of Christ the Priest." Presence of Christ Priest (read "spiritual" extracts) - The "Sign of the Cross." Of Clarity (the latter in preparation for transmission).
You need to spread these works, creating the means. Fertility is promised, a promised birth in the unit created for this...in 1928 (...).
August 1997 "Increasingly, the aim seems to take immense dimensions, it unfolds in its power and sovereignty and is manifested in its source: Christ the Priest. And therefore, I am (to) diminish and disappear as element that served to transmit the deposit and return useless once this deposit was transmitted.
The greatness and appeared to my eyes suddenly, which comes from this truth, the whole vocation is at the level of the hypostatic union and the priestly character followed by the sacrament of order I was called to get my hands on, a grace that belongs to Christ, Head of the Church and its ministers who act in persona Christi priestly grace received in deposit to transmit it.
That's why I have been so given the Priest, my life estandole so closely linked that this priestly presence has fully conditioned. It is a mystery which I cannot talk but is critical of vocation. The grace of this vocation must to live in the priest riches deposited in him by the priestly character, and lead to holiness. It is a completely priestly vocation, which remains at the level of belonging to Christ the Priest. It is not the sanctifying grace of the mystical Body which is the first cause, because this vocation is an intervention of the Person of Christ the Priest for the Church, through priestly holiness of its ministers.
Foundation (of) Archbishop Lefebvre is not comparable to the Dominica order, or Franciscan, etc...is an embodiment "of the whole Church" and the vocation that unites today in its wake, with the same fundamentals. This is a grace able to renew the Church and purify the errors of their existing authorities (...).
October 18, 1997 "The experience of God's goodness." God does not live by a speculative knowledge, but through experience, a contact. It is a purpose of vocation, one of its aims, linked to each other and dear depending on the other.
Having received this grace, before, it is a gift that remains embedded in my soul, like a fallen meteorite from heaven: I have no more than the hollow hole in the depths if the living substance, this gap is accepting no "own" this grace, not taste (suavis est Dominus), so that the priests receive and remain marked forever. This has not been my initiative, but this sacrifice is Christ the Priest who asks me, and if he has given me this "experience" is for me to make the sacrifice, it is by vocation and not for me. (...)
December 19, 1997 "More and more states, in me, the certainty that the Fraternity and vocation flow from one and the same grace and that its purpose is the same: the healing of the current ills of the Church the priesthood, of holy priests, totally united to Christ the Priest.
Where this truth, simple consequences of the foregoing statement appears to me that the life of the Fraternity depends on their obedience to the call of the only Priest, it depends on the fulfillment of the why it has been founded, 25 years ago, by Msgr. Lefebvre. And only this will preserve the dangers of division and impoverishment that could corrode. His life is dear to this historic ecclesial goal and long runs in the church for the sanctity accorded to its priests, if she is faithful to the call Priest Christ directs for vocation, this calling I have received on deposit to pass on today. All of this is of vital importance, both for the Fraternity and for the universal Church.
Jan. 18, 1988 (...) Christ offers first grace of priestly holiness through their vocations; grace to be deposited in the Fraternity. Grace to be like leaven for priests who accept and should lead them to full union with Christ. And these priests Christ want sot make the healing of the current ills of the Church, for these priests, for the sole reason that they themselves are empty and available to His will to sanctify the Church.
Here is the sense of vocation not only offer the grace of union with Christ to live His life here below and for eternity, but offer the same grace to answer the call of Christ Priest who wants to intervene for the good of the Church through his "friends" willing to not outlive their will.
This is the objective reason for the Fraternity; is the raison d'etre of vocation; It is the reason of his inner identity and temporal conjunction, hic et nunc."
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http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/2016/07/supuestas-revelaciones-publicadas-por_23.html
Alleged Disclosures (of Madame Rosinierre) published by Mons. Fellay in the Cor Unum 60, 1998, Part 4 (Google translated):
B. Christ Priest and Fraternity
February 27, 1998 "This deposit contains call of Christ the Priest of the Fraternity, called to be heard by those that Christ wants, as is already the case of the call to the priesthood; called freedom which correspond according to personal choice of each priest. Called to be known throughout the Fraternity in order that no one is deprived of it, but is offered only as information without obligation.
(...) This spiritual ascension is promised and provided by the grace of vocation transmitted by works (Households, sign of the Cross, notebooks). States and by the will of Christ in them, which corresponds to all fertility priestly character these priests are the INSTRUMENT loved by the savior to regenerate the life of the Church.
This instrument is invisible interior is the priestly souls who want to live and makes lives for Christ total delivery. It is not a group constituting society and distinct from others. Its outer loop is only to show responsible for the dissemination of works...
Priests who wanted to respond to this call, should not "do" anything but his duty to state they receive from their superior. What vocation and asks them promising is the total union with Christ, union requested by the Gospel, beginning with baptism, reinforced by management and reactualized today by the needs of the Church. For the promise is lived in them and is fully realized not asked to remove most of the works: one or the other depending on personal guidance, but but necessarily first of the notebooks.
(...) In short the necessary intervention of Christ the Priest, the only adequate to restore the Church, his Mystical Body, manifested by the reunion of two thanks and agreed separately: the foundation of the Fraternity and vocation, destined to merge in the in the scheduled time, time arising from the situation in the Church today.
(...) This union with Christ, the grace of holiness offered to create the instrument through which the only priest wants to go to purify the Church or say, to save it from those who "fight" now.
16 April 1998: "This instrument is the role of the Fraternity as a community, namely, first by the group of "friends" (composed by the priests who answer the call of Christ Priest present for the vocation, extracting from it the grace of total union with Christ Priest). The "friends" are delivered full to his will and left fully to penetrate will of Christ. The consequence is that the One priest provide a "space for souls" where he can act. For it is not the priests who act, but Christ in them. And the fact the only the will of the Lord will be present at these friends, the will be not more than one, in her, and are joined together by a deep charity.
What is the action of Christ the Priest through this instrument that he is prepared to intervene in the Church? The the action due to the presence of charity, ONE presence in all these souls. Invisible presence, because the friends do not "make" anything but fulfill the ministry incuмbent upon them, delivered internally, in full and in love, her divine head. Thus, by its mere presence, Christ will be in these priests - friends as a lover divine, infinite power, those irresistible attraction will cause the priests (to) come from outside the Fraternity, and will join the Tradition. The unhappy about the situation in the Church priests, but unable to decide to change without this hidden grace the heart of the "friends." This call of Christ Priest, embodied in the priestly Fraternity response.
Then they will be small group that will be added to the Fraternity by an explicit loop, but without changing necessarily place...only the Mass they celebrate change (and his doctrine to reconcile with her!). This may occur in the world, here, there, thanks to the presence of priest "friends" in the priories, seminaries... Movement discreet and universal. Power of invisible grace accepted by friends, these "apostles" given to Christ Priest.
Certainly not be the most priests of the Fraternity that will be committed in full, but those who call Christ the delivery themselves. Others must simply join them in the same sentence, the same orientation, each according to the degree of his own grace. The offer is made to all and there should be no division in this respect in the Fraternity: everyone takes and gives what he wants, but the proposition is known to all, no one is excluded.
Thus, as in a wheat field in Spring, the Church will germinate a new life in the world; the priesthood of Christ Priest reborn in its purity, in its power, by the intervention of the One who founded Holy Thursday night.
It is for the Renaissance that He created the Fraternity by Mgr. Lefebvre himself completely delivered, not having him more than Christ the Priest. It is for this renaissance that He created the vocation, delivering this priestly deposit my hands and Giando transmission to this day. And the encounter with the Fraternity was the first sign of realization of the divine plan. After three years, the time is near where everything will start to bear fruit. The current situation of the Church shows, moreover, that this is urgent. Thanks be to God!
April 17, 1998 "This instrument is the vocation is to bring the role the Brotherhood precise knowledge of the historical goal if its foundation (the restoration of faith and the Mass in the Church) and the time of this realization marked by the entrance of this vocation in Fraternity, thanks to the official reception of the Superior General.
The transmission is embodied in the works, supported by the grace of union they contain. A vocation is a deposit in my hands. This broadcast deposit all their wealth unfold in the Fraternity, and finished my mission, my life is terminated. The aim of the mission is identically the same as that of the Fraternity: its role is only to "wake up" to the later, provide it with the means to achieve this objective and to mark the moment, by the providential meeting of two instruments prepared by Christ the Priest, fir his speech today, intended to His Church. Is it an unusual journey? He is the One who has chosen Christ the Priest.
May 1998 "If the Brotherhood has been designated to be the instrument of restoration of Tradition, this does not mean that she is the only one interested in this purpose, it is the whole church that makes up the offering of prayers, sufferings, even if this purpose is not explicit in all souls. The Fraternity has a specific role in the Church who inspires whole entire life to glorify his head, as in the Old Testament Jews aspired to the coming of the Messiah, through the voice of the prophets. Not to assimilate the Brotherhood sect attributing a pharisiacal superiority over others. She has received her "delegation" for the Church, in the Church, with the Church.
Ditto for the role of priests within the Fraternity. The call to the total gift will find answers in as many possible, but there will be priests to whom this call will remain more distant. Priests who may partially answer, partnering with sympathy to the "friends" for the purpose for Masses. Will there who may not understand this call at all? To them, only they are asked not to express their indifference, or opposition, in order to safeguard the unity of the Fraternity. Priest Christ intervenes by a goal that concerns the who community because it has been founded for this reason. No member should introduce division. Your charity should allow your unit through silence on this personal opposition."
(continued in part 5)
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I don't know about anyone else here, but this information published by Bp. Fellay in 1998 seems like a recipe for some sort of gnostic mind control, where "friends" from outside of the SSPX introduce this nonsense to priests in the SSPX (who are open to it), and then the priests are filled with grace from reading the writings, so that they can be in total union with Christ, who can then sanctify the Church by restoring Tradition, the Mass, and the priesthood (in the Church). And anyone who opposes this should keep silent.
So bizarre. :shocked: