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Author Topic: BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME  (Read 2592 times)

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Offline Benzel

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BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
« on: January 08, 2016, 04:36:52 PM »
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  • THE FELLAYCIST SITE (...) HAS POSTED TODAY A VIDEO, RECORDED LAST NOVEMBER, IN WHICH THE SUPERIOR OF THE SSPX SPEAKS OUT.

    Excerpt of the sayings of Bishop Fellay (Subtitles are ours)

    ROME REDUCED THE REQUIREMENTS FOR AN AGREEMENT

    At the beginning of July, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has made again a proposal to the Society, the interesting thing is that this proposal has eliminated the two conditions set two years early.
    Then, they don’t ask us to say that the New Mass is licit and do not ask either to recognize that the Council is Traditional.

    "ROME NO LONGER WANTS TO IMPOSE MODERNISM"

    There are interesting points in this discussion: first, they recognize us as Catholics. Second, we are told that issues are open (religious freedom, ecuмenism, new mass, collegiality).
    If they say these things are open, it means that they have renounced to impose. For me, this is the first step to, finally, after a long time, reach the condemnation of these things.

    WE SHOULD WAIT EVEN 100 YEARS UNTIL ROME CONDEMNS THE CURRENT MODERNIST ERRORS

    For many years Rome will not say that this is an error. Maybe within 100 years they will say so, as (in the case of) the condemnation of Honorius.

    ALSO, THE SSPX REDUCES ITS CONDITIONS TO ONLY ONE: “TO ACCEPT US AS WE ARE”

    What are we going to do with this proposal? To me it seems impossible. It’s impossible to work with them. What I do now is to say to Rome: the only one, the condition sine que non to accept a recognition -which is normal because we’re Catholics- is to accept us as we are.

    THE LITURGICAL ISSUE COMES FIRST, THE DOCTRINE IS POSTPONED. THE SSPX RENOUNCES TO FIGHT FOR THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST.

    What does it mean “as we are”? It means than we will never say the new mass, we will never concelebrate, we will never give the communion in the hand, we will never give communion in the new mass; and the opposed, we will say to the people to do not attend the new mass, to do not take communion in the hand, we will say to priest that it’s necessary to examine to find out if they are priest or not.
    I think that to say that to Rome must be enough (for them) to say no. But we say: “If you don’t agree with that, do not worth to move ahead because we’re not going to change”.

    NOTHING CLEAR FOR THE FUTURE. THE SSPX WILL MERELY REACT TO ROME’S INITIATIVES.

    I think this is going to stop anything for a while.
    With the current Pope, who goes from one surprise to another, it seems impossible to me to predict the future.

    AGAIN, BP. FELLAY SEES “SPRING BUDS”
    There are already some Bishops starting to approach us saying "we need you".
    And then they are beginning to ask for our help, for example, preaching the retreats for the diocese ‘priests.

    I think this road will continue. Little by little we will help the Bishops, priests to return to Tradition.

    http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.mx/2016/01/publican-video-en-el-que-mons-fellay.html#more


    Offline poche

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 01:28:09 AM »
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  • There are already some Bishops starting to approach us saying "we need you".
     And then they are beginning to ask for our help, for example, preaching the retreats for the diocese ‘priests.

    I remember hearing how the Cardinal Ranjith wanted the SSPX will come with him to Sri Lanka and support to the formation of his priests. Of course, without an agreement is impossible.


    Offline Wessex

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 06:30:57 AM »
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  • The conversion requirement was ditched some time ago. The conciliar authority is the only one the Society recognises; no more Eternal Rome or the Church in exile. The thinking in Menzingen is about finding the right formula which enables it to coexist unmolested inside the mainstream. I think this is consonant with a realisation that old-style religion will always be a minority pursuit and the choice is therefore between coming to terms with a troubled phase in church history and getting involved or remaining on the straight and narrow.

    Offline BJ5

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 08:57:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    The conversion requirement was ditched some time ago. The conciliar authority is the only one the Society recognises; no more Eternal Rome or the Church in exile.


    In my opinion, it doesn't help to mix the terms conciliar authority, Eternal Rome, and church in exile. In Catholic terms, authority has always been the term applied to the authority to rule the church granted by Christ to His church.  That authority is invested in His Vicar and those validly succeeding from the Apostles. If Francis is not his Vicar, then the rules generally associated with an interregnum apply and jurisdiction applies to those valid successors of the Apostles who were granted ordinary jurisdiction by the last valid Pope.

    Eternal Rome is merely a nostalgic concept and to represent the Catholic faith in terms of an attachment to the city of Rome is a pleasantry used by +ABL which only confuses a critical situation. The faith has and always and will transcend the attachment to the geographic place known as Rome.

    Church in exile smacks of conclavism.

    R&R is in shambles and I say that as one who does not subscribe to the SV theory.

    Offline Wessex

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #4 on: January 23, 2016, 07:49:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: BJ5
    Quote from: Wessex
    The conversion requirement was ditched some time ago. The conciliar authority is the only one the Society recognises; no more Eternal Rome or the Church in exile.


    In my opinion, it doesn't help to mix the terms conciliar authority, Eternal Rome, and church in exile. In Catholic terms, authority has always been the term applied to the authority to rule the church granted by Christ to His church.  That authority is invested in His Vicar and those validly succeeding from the Apostles. If Francis is not his Vicar, then the rules generally associated with an interregnum apply and jurisdiction applies to those valid successors of the Apostles who were granted ordinary jurisdiction by the last valid Pope.

    Eternal Rome is merely a nostalgic concept and to represent the Catholic faith in terms of an attachment to the city of Rome is a pleasantry used by +ABL which only confuses a critical situation. The faith has and always and will transcend the attachment to the geographic place known as Rome.

    Church in exile smacks of conclavism.

    R&R is in shambles and I say that as one who does not subscribe to the SV theory.



    This is more or less my position. As a temporary solution while Rome sorted herself out, R & R always had a shelf life. It was good while the old order was fresh in the minds of trads but over time it has become a fixed ideology entailing a systematic process from the cradle to the grave. Children are born into a revivalist community, are encouraged to live their lives according to specific rules and hand them onto the next generation. The various resistance positions from the SVs to Bp. Fellay's differ in their attachment to geographical Rome. There is this notion that the place called Rome has magical properties and folk have psychological problems letting go of this idea.

    Inevitably, the remnant is going to express itself in a multitude of ways. We are seeing        
    it happen now with the unilateral initiatives of individual priests and groups. One is hard put to know whom to support. In spite of such fragmentation and rivalry though, we must be grateful for small mercies and preserve what we can preserve while Rome spins off into further incomprehensibility.
     


    Offline 2Vermont

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 08:17:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: BJ5
    Quote from: Wessex
    The conversion requirement was ditched some time ago. The conciliar authority is the only one the Society recognises; no more Eternal Rome or the Church in exile.


    In my opinion, it doesn't help to mix the terms conciliar authority, Eternal Rome, and church in exile. In Catholic terms, authority has always been the term applied to the authority to rule the church granted by Christ to His church.  That authority is invested in His Vicar and those validly succeeding from the Apostles. If Francis is not his Vicar, then the rules generally associated with an interregnum apply and jurisdiction applies to those valid successors of the Apostles who were granted ordinary jurisdiction by the last valid Pope.

    Eternal Rome is merely a nostalgic concept and to represent the Catholic faith in terms of an attachment to the city of Rome is a pleasantry used by +ABL which only confuses a critical situation. The faith has and always and will transcend the attachment to the geographic place known as Rome.

    Church in exile smacks of conclavism.

    R&R is in shambles and I say that as one who does not subscribe to the SV theory.


    Would you mind sharing what position you hold then?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 04:47:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Benzel

    WE SHOULD WAIT EVEN 100 YEARS UNTIL ROME CONDEMNS THE CURRENT MODERNIST ERRORS

    For many years Rome will not say that this is an error. Maybe within 100 years they will say so, as (in the case of) the condemnation of Honorius.


    How can Rome condemn Modernist errors when Rome doesn't even know what Modernism is?

    One of the symptoms of Modernist infection is you don't know you're infected.

    If Rome recognized their contagion of Modernism they would have released the Third Secret already.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    BP. FELLAY SPEAKS ABOUT LAST PROPOSAL OF ROME
    « Reply #7 on: January 23, 2016, 05:27:55 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Benzel

    WE SHOULD WAIT EVEN 100 YEARS UNTIL ROME CONDEMNS THE CURRENT MODERNIST ERRORS

    For many years Rome will not say that this is an error. Maybe within 100 years they will say so, as (in the case of) the condemnation of Honorius.


    How can Rome condemn Modernist errors when Rome doesn't even know what Modernism is?

    One of the symptoms of Modernist infection is you don't know you're infected.

    If Rome recognized their contagion of Modernism they would have released the Third Secret already.

    .


    You really don't think most of Rome knows they are Modernists?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)