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Author Topic: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?  (Read 6322 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 11:47:36 AM »
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    • There's a new article on DICI today, written by Bp. Fellay. It's titled..."The Crisis in the Church - Roots and Remedies."

    Unfortunately, there's not one word in the article about Modernism. In an article about the Crisis in the Church, shouldn't Modernism be at the forefront of the article? But no. The dreaded "M" word is not used at all, that I could find. The term, "Relativism" is used, it appears, instead.

    Pope St. Pius X fought bravely against Modernism, and wasn't afraid to use the term. And yet the Fraternity whom is named after him won't use the term "Modernism" anymore, at least not officially.

    DICI article:

    http://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/crisis-church-roots-and-remedies-38634
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 12:28:14 PM »
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    • I don't know.  I think that these guys are well beyond Modernism.  Bishop Williamson has often spoken about relativism.  Modernism is much more subtle than what these guys are doing.  It's slippery and subtle.  Ratzinger was a true Modernist, so was Wojtyla.  But they've come out of the closet and into the open now.  You'll find a lot of pure modernism in pre-Vatican II theologians and in things like The Catholic Encyclopedia ... where a lot of it has the veneer of orthodoxy with the subtle injection of heterodox thoughts.  There's nothing subtle about these guys anymore.  One could reasonably argue the +Fellay and the neo-SSPX are Modernist.  They're Modernists of the Traditional variety (such as the ones St. Pius X combatted).
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on June 23, 2018, 12:28:14 PM
    I don't know.  I think that these guys are well beyond Modernism.  Bishop Williamson has often spoken about relativism.  Modernism is much more subtle than what these guys are doing.  It's slippery and subtle.  Ratzinger was a true Modernist, so was Wojtyla.  But they've come out of the closet and into the open now.  You'll find a lot of pure modernism in pre-Vatican II theologians and in things like The Catholic Encyclopedia ... where a lot of it has the veneer of orthodoxy with the subtle injection of heterodox thoughts.  There's nothing subtle about these guys anymore.  One could reasonably argue the +Fellay and the neo-SSPX are Modernist.  They're Modernists of the Traditional variety (such as the ones St. Pius X combatted).
    I keep repeating it, it is 1964 all over again. Back then everybody did the Latin Mass just like the SSPX does today. The SSPX parents of what is today the 45 and unders, turned their children over to the SSPX to teach them the faith, and the SSPX did the same as the clergy did in the 1950's, prepare them for the 1960's. And now we are entering the 1960's all over again. The future trads are not going to be the SSPXers, there will be some that come out of it, but the majority will follow the path of the 1960's.
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 05:30:17 PM »
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    •                 

               Fr. Niklaus Pfluger, First Assistant General of the SSPX


    Recently explained that the essence of the Church crisis is now... the bad spirit of Resistance "con men".
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #19 on: June 24, 2018, 11:56:33 PM »
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    • THERE ARE BIG PROBLEMS WITH NUMBER 4 AND NUMBER 8, REREAD THEM, SELF EXPLANATORY.
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    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #20 on: June 25, 2018, 08:02:50 AM »
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    • Modernisms to be understood in the light of tradition is such a pile of nonsense and indicates how so many of these clerics have become mentally frozen and theologically bankrupt. The future for them is either as grateful newcomers in the Roman pantheon of anything goes or as founder members of yet another crazy Christian denomination with a small following.  Modernity has numbed them into accepting these secure alternatives rather than the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 08:11:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Wessex on June 25, 2018, 08:02:50 AM
    "... the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests."
    Me likest this one :cowboy:
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 12:41:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Wessex on June 25, 2018, 08:02:50 AM
    Modernisms to be understood in the light of tradition is such a pile of nonsense and indicates how so many of these clerics have become mentally frozen and theologically bankrupt. The future for them is either as grateful newcomers in the Roman pantheon of anything goes or as founder members of yet another crazy Christian denomination with a small following.  Modernity has numbed them into accepting these secure alternatives rather than the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests.
    Indeed, If one looks at the overall history of this group, they have always been on a subtle march towards integrating with modernism of Vatican II.  They thought that they could take part from a distance, which led to ideas like "prudential truths", and "in the light of Tradition".    True conviction and hard principles were never at issue, as they would not have allowed the society to claims of, an irregular situation, but would have demanded a more formal level separation based on the demands of orthodoxy and the purity of Catholic doctrine.
    They have from the beginning, had the appearance of Tradition, with the underlying faint odor of something else.
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    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #23 on: June 26, 2018, 07:57:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on June 25, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
    Indeed, If one looks at the overall history of this group, they have always been on a subtle march towards integrating with modernism of Vatican II.  They thought that they could take part from a distance, which led to ideas like "prudential truths", and "in the light of Tradition".    True conviction and hard principles were never at issue, as they would not have allowed the society to claims of, an irregular situation, but would have demanded a more formal level separation based on the demands of orthodoxy and the purity of Catholic doctrine.
    They have from the beginning, had the appearance of Tradition, with the underlying faint odor of something else.
    Form instead of substance has been the trad scene with some exceptions. Had Rome been more generous with her indults the Society would not have existed. We have seen how easily trads have over time been persuaded by a crafty leadership to soften their stance. And I scream every time I hear about prudence! These expressions are created with inbuilt contradiction as numbing devices and to give an intelligentsia greater detachment when dealing with inquisitive laymen. Language can be a wonderful tool but it can also be lethal. And churchmen certainly know how to use it!
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #24 on: July 14, 2021, 05:24:43 PM »
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    • This interview goes with it.




    Bump!
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #25 on: July 14, 2021, 05:30:35 PM »
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    • I think I was wrong, at least as far as Fellay is concerned.

    To be honest I won't pretend to be 100% sure who's right, but I see no meaningful sense in which what Bishop Fellay says differs from FSSP.

    This isn't like some of the other stuff that's been mentioned, whether SSPX regularly talking to Rome, or obeying Rome's commands on the '62 missal or fasting rules or what have you.  Fellay seems to straight up embrace hermeneutic of continuity here.

    Which means he belongs in the FSSP.

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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #26 on: July 14, 2021, 06:49:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on July 14, 2021, 05:24:43 PM
    This interview goes with it.




    Bump!

    :facepalm:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #27 on: July 14, 2021, 08:25:48 PM »
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    I think I was wrong, at least as far as Fellay is concerned.

    To be honest I won't pretend to be 100% sure who's right, but I see no meaningful sense in which what Bishop Fellay says differs from FSSP.
    Exactly, Byzcat.  +Fellay and Co are running the sspx like FSSP-lite.  It’s just a matter of time before they become indult.  That’s why we bash the new-sspx like we do; they make a mockery of what +ABL built and stood for.  They make a mockery of all of Tradition for the last 50 years.  
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    Offline andy

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #28 on: July 14, 2021, 08:54:31 PM »
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    • Quote
    +ABL b)   We declare our acceptance of the doctrine contained in §2541 of the dogmatic Constitution Lumen Gentium of Vatican Council II on the ecclesiastical magisterium and the adherence which is due to it.
    after http://tradicat.blogspot.com/2015/07/doctrinal-preamble-april-15-2012-vs.html
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    Offline Proselytize

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #29 on: July 14, 2021, 09:22:23 PM »
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    • Another reminder...
    April 15th was the day the Titanic sunk.  
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