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Author Topic: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?  (Read 3119 times)

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Offline Mega-fin

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Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2018, 07:23:30 AM »
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  • The problem is that people actually listen to the SSPX try to “unpack” it. I remember Fr Rostand's  article of “its more traditional then the May 5 declaration that the Archbishop signed!” “Bp Tissier wrote up the May 5 declaration, and no one calls him a modernist!” “Everything from V2 that he quotes is in line with tradition!” And on and on. They ignore WHY the Archbishop redrew his signature completely (“its only because they wouldn’t give him a Bishop!”) and brush it under the rug because “the document was withdraw” and “he never signed it”. If another man wrote a love letter to my wife, it doesn’t make it ok that he didn’t sign it!

    Also interesting that the AFD follows the Burke’s and Schneider’s line on V2 - it must be understood in line with tradition! Not what the Archbishop said, where there are ambiguities, they must be understood as in line with tradition, and what is wrong must be done away with and rejected. 

    Offline clarkaim

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #16 on: June 23, 2018, 11:32:34 AM »
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  • .
    Here's a sobering thought: Centuries ago, you'd be showing someone a HANDWRITTEN DOCUMENT and they would be obliged to grant it credibility because EVERY document was handwritten. Would they believe you today if you showed them something handwritten? NO WAY. There was a time, say 50 years ago, when showing them a periodical or a magazine or a Church bulletin or some page run off on a mimiograph machine (precursor to Xerox) it would be respectable. But no more! Today, Anyone Can Run Off Copy Using a Printer/Computer. So it's a matter of presentation. You have to be somehow convincing in HOW you say what you have to say, while you show them the printed copy, preferably from an official bulletin or book, with a verifiable publisher, such as Angelus Press.
    .
    Matthew here says, "I had to dig it up." That means it was on the verge of being forgotten, or at least it's not at the ready for quick access and reference!
    .
    Man, that brought back memories of the 3rd grade, the smell of that purple mimio ink.  Thanks for th good memory


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #17 on: June 23, 2018, 11:47:36 AM »
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  • There's a new article on DICI today, written by Bp. Fellay. It's titled..."The Crisis in the Church - Roots and Remedies."

    Unfortunately, there's not one word in the article about Modernism. In an article about the Crisis in the Church, shouldn't Modernism be at the forefront of the article? But no. The dreaded "M" word is not used at all, that I could find. The term, "Relativism" is used, it appears, instead.

    Pope St. Pius X fought bravely against Modernism, and wasn't afraid to use the term. And yet the Fraternity whom is named after him won't use the term "Modernism" anymore, at least not officially.

    DICI article:

    http://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/crisis-church-roots-and-remedies-38634

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #18 on: June 23, 2018, 12:28:14 PM »
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  • I don't know.  I think that these guys are well beyond Modernism.  Bishop Williamson has often spoken about relativism.  Modernism is much more subtle than what these guys are doing.  It's slippery and subtle.  Ratzinger was a true Modernist, so was Wojtyla.  But they've come out of the closet and into the open now.  You'll find a lot of pure modernism in pre-Vatican II theologians and in things like The Catholic Encyclopedia ... where a lot of it has the veneer of orthodoxy with the subtle injection of heterodox thoughts.  There's nothing subtle about these guys anymore.  One could reasonably argue the +Fellay and the neo-SSPX are Modernist.  They're Modernists of the Traditional variety (such as the ones St. Pius X combatted).

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #19 on: June 23, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »
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  • I don't know.  I think that these guys are well beyond Modernism.  Bishop Williamson has often spoken about relativism.  Modernism is much more subtle than what these guys are doing.  It's slippery and subtle.  Ratzinger was a true Modernist, so was Wojtyla.  But they've come out of the closet and into the open now.  You'll find a lot of pure modernism in pre-Vatican II theologians and in things like The Catholic Encyclopedia ... where a lot of it has the veneer of orthodoxy with the subtle injection of heterodox thoughts.  There's nothing subtle about these guys anymore.  One could reasonably argue the +Fellay and the neo-SSPX are Modernist.  They're Modernists of the Traditional variety (such as the ones St. Pius X combatted).
    I keep repeating it, it is 1964 all over again. Back then everybody did the Latin Mass just like the SSPX does today. The SSPX parents of what is today the 45 and unders, turned their children over to the SSPX to teach them the faith, and the SSPX did the same as the clergy did in the 1950's, prepare them for the 1960's. And now we are entering the 1960's all over again. The future trads are not going to be the SSPXers, there will be some that come out of it, but the majority will follow the path of the 1960's.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 05:30:17 PM »
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  •                 

               Fr. Niklaus Pfluger, First Assistant General of the SSPX


    Recently explained that the essence of the Church crisis is now... the bad spirit of Resistance "con men".
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #21 on: June 24, 2018, 11:56:33 PM »
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  • THERE ARE BIG PROBLEMS WITH NUMBER 4 AND NUMBER 8, REREAD THEM, SELF EXPLANATORY.

    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 08:02:50 AM »
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  • Modernisms to be understood in the light of tradition is such a pile of nonsense and indicates how so many of these clerics have become mentally frozen and theologically bankrupt. The future for them is either as grateful newcomers in the Roman pantheon of anything goes or as founder members of yet another crazy Christian denomination with a small following.  Modernity has numbed them into accepting these secure alternatives rather than the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #23 on: June 25, 2018, 08:11:44 AM »
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  • "... the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests."
    Me likest this one :cowboy:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #24 on: June 25, 2018, 12:41:57 PM »
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  • Modernisms to be understood in the light of tradition is such a pile of nonsense and indicates how so many of these clerics have become mentally frozen and theologically bankrupt. The future for them is either as grateful newcomers in the Roman pantheon of anything goes or as founder members of yet another crazy Christian denomination with a small following.  Modernity has numbed them into accepting these secure alternatives rather than the lonely road of true conviction as freelance priests.
    Indeed, If one looks at the overall history of this group, they have always been on a subtle march towards integrating with modernism of Vatican II.  They thought that they could take part from a distance, which led to ideas like "prudential truths", and "in the light of Tradition".    True conviction and hard principles were never at issue, as they would not have allowed the society to claims of, an irregular situation, but would have demanded a more formal level separation based on the demands of orthodoxy and the purity of Catholic doctrine.
    They have from the beginning, had the appearance of Tradition, with the underlying faint odor of something else.

    Offline Wessex

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    Re: Bp Fellay April 15th Declaration - do YOU know whats in it?
    « Reply #25 on: June 26, 2018, 07:57:01 AM »
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  • Indeed, If one looks at the overall history of this group, they have always been on a subtle march towards integrating with modernism of Vatican II.  They thought that they could take part from a distance, which led to ideas like "prudential truths", and "in the light of Tradition".    True conviction and hard principles were never at issue, as they would not have allowed the society to claims of, an irregular situation, but would have demanded a more formal level separation based on the demands of orthodoxy and the purity of Catholic doctrine.
    They have from the beginning, had the appearance of Tradition, with the underlying faint odor of something else.
    Form instead of substance has been the trad scene with some exceptions. Had Rome been more generous with her indults the Society would not have existed. We have seen how easily trads have over time been persuaded by a crafty leadership to soften their stance. And I scream every time I hear about prudence! These expressions are created with inbuilt contradiction as numbing devices and to give an intelligentsia greater detachment when dealing with inquisitive laymen. Language can be a wonderful tool but it can also be lethal. And churchmen certainly know how to use it!


     

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