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Author Topic: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"  (Read 2362 times)

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Offline nottambula

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Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
« on: September 21, 2018, 01:06:29 AM »
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    • http://callmejorgebergoglio.blogspot.com/2018/09/bp-fellay-we-are-catholics-and-modern.html

    Bp. Fellay, “we are Catholics and the modern church recognizes us as Catholics.”



     



    Quote
    “Our situation is now as follows: first, and I can give you statements from Rome that say very clearly that the Society is not schismatic. So we are Catholics and the modern church recognizes us as Catholics. But they say there is something irregular because you do not have canonical status. And they do not want to give us this canonical status before we say that the new Mass is good and the council is good. And we're not going to say it, so we're stuck here. At the same time, you have heard that the Pope gave us the power to confess everyone. Everyone can come with us, not only our faithful, everybody, and the priest has the power to give confession. This is true also for the Last Rights, that is for the Extreme Unction, and recently we have also, in a curious way, the power for marriages. It is even more than that. Just to show you that even if there are certain things which are not yet complete, on the other side many things that are already written down, where Rome is accepting us as Catholics. I give you some examples. For example, if a priest is doing very, very bad, so he needs to be punished. And so the superior, which was myself, I contact Rome and say I'm sorry one of our priests did a big thing and several time Rome did appoint myself as the judge of the case. So I think tribunal know in the name of Rome on one or several of our priests even one times they appointed me as the tribunal of second instance what is Rome made the judgement, the priest appealed against this decision from Rome, and Rome didn't recognize that they made a mistake, and they asked me to be the second judge for that case. How can this be if we are not Catholics? You see? Here we have examples in real life which shows that they consider us as Catholics. Though they say that everything is not yet finished. It is true, we all recognize that. We all say who made the first mistake?”

    — conference with Bp. Fellay, St. Joseph Priory, Davao City, Mindanao, Philippines, (3 September 2018).






    Break out the champagne, the modernists recognize the FSSPX as one of their own!




    So much for not collaborating with Modernist Rome...

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 05:14:49 AM »
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    • So NOW we're Catholic because Bergoglio says we are.  NOW their Confessions and marriages are valid.  What were they before?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 06:18:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 21, 2018, 05:14:49 AM
    So NOW we're Catholic because Bergoglio says we are.  NOW their Confessions and marriages are valid.  What were they before?
    Not sure how you got that out of what he said, because whether one thinks he is lying or not, what he is saying that Rome *finally* says the SSPX is no longer schismatic and *finally* recognizes the SSPX as Catholic, as if to say - "it took them long enough!"-  at the same time Rome is saying that the SSPX will have no canonical status until the SSPX "say that the new mass is good and the council is good" - he then says: "And we're not going to say it".
       
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #3 on: September 21, 2018, 08:44:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 21, 2018, 06:18:23 AM
    Not sure how you got that out of what he said, because whether one thinks he is lying or not, what he is saying that Rome *finally* says the SSPX is no longer schismatic and *finally* recognizes the SSPX as Catholic, as if to say - "it took them long enough!"-  at the same time Rome is saying that the SSPX will have no canonical status until the SSPX "say that the new mass is good and the council is good" - he then says: "And we're not going to say it".
      

    Just read, man:
    Quote
    ... statements from Rome that say very clearly that the Society is not schismatic. So we are Catholics and the modern church recognizes us as Catholics.

    Rome says that the Society is not schismatic, SO we are Catholics.

    Quote
    At the same time, you have heard that the Pope gave us the power to confess everyone.

    So the Pope "gave us the power to confess everyone".  Does that mean that this power to confess everyone was lacking before?
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #4 on: September 21, 2018, 08:48:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 21, 2018, 06:18:23 AM
    Not sure how you got that out of what he said, because whether one thinks he is lying or not, what he is saying that Rome *finally* says the SSPX is no longer schismatic and *finally* recognizes the SSPX as Catholic, as if to say - "it took them long enough!"-  at the same time Rome is saying that the SSPX will have no canonical status until the SSPX "say that the new mass is good and the council is good" - he then says: "And we're not going to say it".
      
    Are you or did you really believe that prior to this happening, you thought you were schismatic you believed that you were OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?  Is that what SSPX believed; there is something very wrong with that logic.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #5 on: September 21, 2018, 08:54:03 AM »
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    • Now here's why he's saying this stuff:

    Quote
    Everyone can come with us, not only our faithful, everybody, and the priest has the power to give confession.

    He's clearly using these developments with Rome to appeal to the broader masses outside the SSPX.  He wants to double the size of $50 million seminary.  So suddenly all the seminarians who would otherwise look at FSSP and ICK will flock to Virginia?  Otherwise, the implication here would be that until Rome gave this "approval", the SSPX could only legitimately minister to "THEIR" faithful?  Who are "THEIR" faithful anyway?  Are you an SSPX faithful because you show up at an SSPX chapel for Mass?  If so, then anyone could have become one of THEIR faithful anyway?

    This is just a load of canonically-unsound nonsense in the interests of lobbying broader groups of people (and more money) to show up at their Mass centers.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #6 on: September 21, 2018, 09:10:11 AM »
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    • Haven't seen the "other" Fr. Pfeiffer in a while. He looks older than I remember him. Probably because I haven't seen Fr. Timothy Pfeiffer since 2006 or 2007. For what it's worth, he's aged better than I have... hahaha
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #7 on: September 21, 2018, 09:30:08 AM »
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    • I met Fr Pfeiffer 1 (as opposed to the other, Pfeiffer 2) some years ago and didn't recognize him at first without the beard.  It was partly gray then, but he definitely appears younger without it.  
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #8 on: September 21, 2018, 09:35:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 21, 2018, 08:44:32 AM
    Just read, man:

    Quote
    ... statements from Rome that say very clearly that the Society is not schismatic. So we are Catholics and the modern church recognizes us as Catholics.
    Rome says that the Society is not schismatic, SO we are Catholics.
    You are saying that +Fellay is celebrating the fact that now they are Catholic because the pope said so? Ridiculous. I don't like the crap +Fellay has done anymore than anyone else, but that is not what he is saying.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #9 on: September 21, 2018, 09:50:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on September 21, 2018, 08:48:03 AM
    Are you or did you really believe that prior to this happening, you thought you were schismatic you believed that you were OUTSIDE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?  Is that what SSPX believed; there is something very wrong with that logic.  
    You are not talking logic, not sure what you're talking.

    I've been SSPX since it began, even prior to then. Also had to leave it for some years during it's sede divisive infighting years in the 80s, but when that was settled I returned, so I can say with certainty that they've always known they are not schismatic and have always been Catholic. +Fellay was saying that Rome *is saying* that they FINALLY realize this now too. To which I say, while Rome remains apostate, who really cares what they FINALLY realize.

    When the priests of the SSPX I use for Mass and the sacraments start NOing it up and preaching errors, I will leave again - may even have to go to a sede for Mass and the sacraments if that's what it means.
     
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 09:58:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 21, 2018, 09:50:40 AM
    You are not talking logic, not sure what you're talking.

    I've been SSPX since it began, even prior to then. Also had to leave it for some years during it's sede divisive infighting years in the 80s, but when that was settled I returned, so I can say with certainty that they've always known they are not schismatic and have always been Catholic. +Fellay was saying that Rome *is saying* that they FINALLY realize this now too. To which I say, while Rome remains apostate, who really cares what they FINALLY realize.

    When the priests of the SSPX I use for Mass and the sacraments start NOing it up and preaching errors, I will leave again - may even have to go to a sede for Mass and the sacraments if that's what it means.
     
    Good for you Stubborn, I guess I misunderstood you once again.  
    We must KNOW that we are steadfast in The Faith, and they are not.  One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic!
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 10:27:25 AM »
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    • I know a couple of devout Catholics who recognize flaws in the NO, live minutes from an SSPX church, and nevertheless attend the NO because they mistakenly believe the SSPX is schismatic.  I have lost count of the number of times that I have heard this misconception repeated both online and in person.  And it is no harmless mistake.  There are people being exposed to heresy and sacrilege at the NO because they think this.

    While I acknowledge there are legitimate criticisms to be made of Bishop Fellay, I do not see him doing anything wrong by addressing a misconception that imperils souls.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 10:27:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on September 21, 2018, 09:35:32 AM
    Rome says that the Society is not schismatic, SO we are Catholics.
    You are saying that +Fellay is celebrating the fact that now they are Catholic because the pope said so? Ridiculous. I don't like the crap +Fellay has done anymore than anyone else, but that is not what he is saying.

    You have trouble with reading comprehension.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 10:32:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on September 21, 2018, 10:27:25 AM
    I know a couple of devout Catholics who recognize flaws in the NO, live minutes from an SSPX church, and nevertheless attend the NO because they mistakenly believe the SSPX is schismatic.  I have lost count of the number of times that I have heard this misconception repeated both online and in person.  And it is no harmless mistake.  There are people being exposed to heresy and sacrilege at the NO because they think this.

    While I acknowledge there are legitimate criticisms to be made of Bishop Fellay, I do not see him doing anything wrong by addressing a misconception that imperils souls.  

    No, in fact, he's reinforcing the misconception by implying that they are Catholic because Modernist Rome says they are, that they have the power to hear Confessions because Rome gave it to them.  This is implicily reinforcing the misconception that the SSPX are schismatic and certain of their Sacraments invalid because they lacked recognition from Rome.  So what happens when these approvals are lifted?  This is just his usual political nonsense and double-talk, and it does more harm than good.

    He could have said, "See, EVEN Rome says we're Catholic."
     
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Bp. Fellay: "Modern Church recognizes us as Catholics"
    « Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 10:40:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on September 21, 2018, 10:32:36 AM
    No, in fact, he's reinforcing the misconception by implying that they are Catholic because Modernist Rome says they are, that they have the power to hear Confessions because Rome gave it to them.  This is implicily reinforcing the misconception that the SSPX are schismatic and certain of their Sacraments invalid because they lacked recognition from Rome.  So what happens when these approvals are lifted?  This is just his usual political nonsense and double-talk, and it does more harm than good.

    He could have said, "See, EVEN Rome says we're Catholic."
     
    There are many well-meaning but ignorant Catholics attending the NO who would benefit from Bishop Fellay's message.  Their scruples might be resolved by appealing to "Modernist Rome" because they recognize its authority.  It could help these people to start attending the Tridentine Mass and give them an opportunity to hear orthodox doctrine.

    I saw this sort of person as the ultimate target audience of Bishop Fellay's remarks.
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