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Author Topic: Bp. Daniel Dolan to consecrate Brazilian Fr. Rodrigo da Silva for Latin America  (Read 4426 times)

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Offline Durango77

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Bp Dolan is a great man, stood up to the Vatican, Abp Lefebvre, and the SSPV and still going strong doing God's work.


Offline gladius_veritatis

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Bp Dolan is a great man, stood up to the Vatican, Abp Lefebvre, and the SSPV and still going strong doing God's work.
:laugh2:
"Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

Offline Marion

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Da Silva has said that he was first confronted with "non una cuм" priests at the Resistance seminary in France. There he first met priests saying mass "non una cuм". They weren't sedevacantists, but nevertheless saw Bergoglio as a manifest heretic.

At that time, or not much later, the topic of Resistance "non una cuм" priests was mentioned on CI:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/bishop-williamson-sedevacantism-and-bishop-faure's-seminary/msg654961/#msg654961
That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

Offline Marion

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Williamson can't have it both ways; independent pockets of resistance, and a unfied and principled resistance.
That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


Offline obediens

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  • There are now three threads going, between here and the Crisis subforum, in which I posted this.

    On a more practical level, this consecration could very well prove to be disastrous. Besides switching from R&R to sedevacantism shortly after ordination, he is only 30 years old and a priest for not even four years. 

    In 2012, a mainline Thuc bishop consecrated a 30 year old two years after ordaining him. The young man left the priesthood and episcopacy a year and a few months later. 

    In 1987, a priest (ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1982) was consecrated a bishop by a mainline Thuc bishop. He left the priesthood and episcopacy fairly shortly after as well. 

    The traditional requirements (1917 Code) for Episcopal Consecration:

    Canon 378 

    §1. In regard to the suitability of a candidate for the episcopacy, it is required that he is:

    1. outstanding in solid faith, good morals, piety, zeal for souls, wisdom, prudence, and human virtues, and endowed with other qualities which make him suitable to fulfill the office in question;
    2. of good reputation;
    3. at least thirty-five years old;
    4. ordained to the presbyterate for at least five years;
    5. in possession of a doctorate or at least a licentiate in sacred scripture, theology, or canon law from an institute of higher studies approved by the Apostolic See, or at least truly expert in the same disciplines.

    §2. The definitive judgment concerning the suitability of the one to be promoted pertains to the Apostolic See. 

    Offline obediens

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  • There are now three threads going, between here and the Crisis subforum, in which I posted this.

    On a more practical level, this consecration could very well prove to be disastrous. Besides switching from R&R to sedevacantism shortly after ordination, he is only 30 years old and a priest for not even four years.

    In 2012, a mainline Thuc bishop consecrated a 30 year old two years after ordaining him. The young man left the priesthood and episcopacy a year and a few months later.

    In 1987, a priest (ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre in 1982) was consecrated a bishop by a mainline Thuc bishop. He left the priesthood and episcopacy fairly shortly after as well.

    The traditional requirements (1917 Code) for Episcopal Consecration:

    Canon 378

    §1. In regard to the suitability of a candidate for the episcopacy, it is required that he is:

    1. outstanding in solid faith, good morals, piety, zeal for souls, wisdom, prudence, and human virtues, and endowed with other qualities which make him suitable to fulfill the office in question;
    2. of good reputation;
    3. at least thirty-five years old;
    4. ordained to the presbyterate for at least five years;
    5. in possession of a doctorate or at least a licentiate in sacred scripture, theology, or canon law from an institute of higher studies approved by the Apostolic See, or at least truly expert in the same disciplines.

    §2. The definitive judgment concerning the suitability of the one to be promoted pertains to the Apostolic See.
    I apologize for quoting from the 83 Code. Here is the pertinent Canon (329) from the 1917 Code. 
    TITULUS VIII:  De potestate episcopali deque iis qui de eadem participant

    CAPUT I:  De Episcopis

    Can 329 §1. Episcopi sunt Apostolorum successores atque ex divina institutione peculiaribus ecclesiis praeficiuntur quas cuм potestate ordinaria regunt sub auctoritate Romani Pontificis.
     §2. Eos libere nominat Romanus Pontifex.
     §3. Si cui collegio concessum sit ius eligendi Episcopum, servetur praescriptum can. 321.

    Can 330. Antequam quis in Episcopum assumatur, constare debet, secundum modum a Sede Apostolica determinatum, eum esse idoneum.

    Can 331 §1. Ut quis idoneus habeatur, debet esse:
     1º Natus ex legitimo matrimonio, non autem legitimatus etiam per subsequens matrimonium;
     2º Annos natus saltem triginta;
     3º A quinquennio saltem in sacro presbyteratus ordine constitutus;
     4º Bonis moribus, pietate, animarum zelo, prudentia, ceterisque dotibus, praeditus, quae ipsum aptum efficiant ad gubernandam dioecesim de qua agitur;
     5º Laurea doctoris vel saltem licentia in sacra theologia aut iure canonico potitus in athenaeo aliquo vel in Instituto studiorum a Sancta Sede probatis, vel saltem earundem disciplinarum vere peritus; quod si ad religionem aliquam pertineat, a suis Superioribus maioribus vel similem titulum vel saltem verae peritiae testimonium habeat.
     §2. Etiam electus, praesentatus vel quoquo modo ab illis designatus, qui privilegio a Sancta Sede concesso praesentandi seu designandi gaudent, debet memoratis qualitatibus pollere.
     §3. Iudicare num quis idoneus sit, ad Apostolicam Sedem unice pertinet.


    Offline LackOfCoherence

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  • These sede bishops bounce around the world doing as they please. Bishops were never supposed to be like this. Ideally, you become a priest at age 30, and then you're elected by the local people to become a bishop for a specific church years later. Bishops in their 30s is in general a terrible idea and should not be allowed. Now with sedes, they appeal to epikeia to throw all norms out the window. All bishops now see the entire planet as their "diocese" and they're all ordained "at large." Being ordained/consecrated "at large" had always meant that the consecration is invalid, but of course they appeal to both epikeia & ex opere operato to therefore allow anything. Of course the laity are so desperate for their sacraments, they're willing to accept all kinds of disorder and they don't question the bishops (except for the few who do, and leave). I accept the logic that there's no pope, so bishops can ordain without papal approval. However, I don't accept the logic that bishops can now do whatever they please and ordain people of any age and anywhere on the planet for whatever purpose. Just look at the CMRI, their bishop was once in the Eastern Washington/Idaho area, then decided to relocate across the country and abandon his flock (though I'm sure he'd say planet Earth is his flock), now he's globe trotting and providing sacraments on all continents. It's total disorder and chaos and the laity seem not to care. Stop giving these con men money and demand that they stay in one place and only provide sacraments in their region.


    Offline Durango77

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  • These sede bishops bounce around the world doing as they please. Bishops were never supposed to be like this. Ideally, you become a priest at age 30, and then you're elected by the local people to become a bishop for a specific church years later. Bishops in their 30s is in general a terrible idea and should not be allowed. Now with sedes, they appeal to epikeia to throw all norms out the window. All bishops now see the entire planet as their "diocese" and they're all ordained "at large." Being ordained/consecrated "at large" had always meant that the consecration is invalid, but of course they appeal to both epikeia & ex opere operato to therefore allow anything. Of course the laity are so desperate for their sacraments, they're willing to accept all kinds of disorder and they don't question the bishops (except for the few who do, and leave). I accept the logic that there's no pope, so bishops can ordain without papal approval. However, I don't accept the logic that bishops can now do whatever they please and ordain people of any age and anywhere on the planet for whatever purpose. Just look at the CMRI, their bishop was once in the Eastern Washington/Idaho area, then decided to relocate across the country and abandon his flock (though I'm sure he'd say planet Earth is his flock), now he's globe trotting and providing sacraments on all continents. It's total disorder and chaos and the laity seem not to care. Stop giving these con men money and demand that they stay in one place and only provide sacraments in their region.

    Well these bishops are out providing sacraments to people asking for them, and ensuring that holy orders continue.  What's the alternative, tell the faithful asking for sacraments, too bad?  Ultimately the job of the bishops and priests are to save souls.  So hunkering down in Washington state waiting for the end isn't the best way to do that I would guess.

    Speaking of Washington state specifically, that place is a commie hot bed.  It makes sense for CMRI to setup somewhere else.





    Online Ladislaus

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  • "Bishops in their 30s" were actually quite common right before Vatican II ... especially in mission territories, where people needed the Sacraments.  And that's the case today as well.  Now, certainly, no bishop would receive ordinary jurisdiction over a diocese at such a young age, but then that's not what's going on here either.  We are in a missionary situation these days.  I don't have any real problem with the age.  One might argue that there are too many bishops, but not compared to the size of the world, and the "two bishops in every garage" is an exaggeration.  It's more like two bishops for every continent.

    Online Ladislaus

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  • Being ordained/consecrated "at large" had always meant that the consecration is invalid, ...

    False.


    Offline AntiFellayism

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  • These sede bishops bounce around the world doing as they please. Bishops were never supposed to be like this. Ideally, you become a priest at age 30, and then you're elected by the local people to become a bishop for a specific church years later. Bishops in their 30s is in general a terrible idea and should not be allowed. Now with sedes, they appeal to epikeia to throw all norms out the window. All bishops now see the entire planet as their "diocese" and they're all ordained "at large." Being ordained/consecrated "at large" had always meant that the consecration is invalid, but of course they appeal to both epikeia & ex opere operato to therefore allow anything. Of course the laity are so desperate for their sacraments, they're willing to accept all kinds of disorder and they don't question the bishops (except for the few who do, and leave). I accept the logic that there's no pope, so bishops can ordain without papal approval. However, I don't accept the logic that bishops can now do whatever they please and ordain people of any age and anywhere on the planet for whatever purpose. Just look at the CMRI, their bishop was once in the Eastern Washington/Idaho area, then decided to relocate across the country and abandon his flock (though I'm sure he'd say planet Earth is his flock), now he's globe trotting and providing sacraments on all continents. It's total disorder and chaos and the laity seem not to care. Stop giving these con men money and demand that they stay in one place and only provide sacraments in their region.
    I'll just remind you that Bishop Fellay was also consecrated when he was 30, by Archbishop Lefebvre who in turn was consecrated bishop at 42 years of age himself. We could also mention Bishops Zendejas, Pivarunas, Selway, and many others who were also young priests when they were consecrated bishops, either by merit, necessity or both.

    Meanwhile, try to find out which bishops do not "bounce around" and "appeal" to epikeia, ex opere operato, salus populi suprema lex, etc. One cannot whine of having no priests and at the same time condemn consecrations of new bishops (unless if you know of any valid impediments), otherwise you are only reaffirming your screen name was not taken in jest.

    St. Alphonsus Liguori, consecrated at 30 year of age, pray for us!
    Non Habemus Papam

    Offline Puzzle

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  • Young bishops in the history of the Church:

    James as Latin Archbishop of Nicosia. James was just 16 at the time.
    .
    Odo of Bayeux, half brother of William the Conqueror. Unfortunately, we don't know his year of birth; estimates range from 1030 to 1035 so he may have been as young as 14 or as old as 19 when his brother William made him bishop in either 1049 or 1050.
    .
     Prince Frederick, Duke of York and Albany, the second son of King George III.  Born on 16 August 1763, he was appointed as Prince Bishop of Osnabrück on 27 February 1764, at the age of just 6 months and 11 days! 
    .
    Hugh of Vermandois became Archbishop of Reims in 925, at only five years old.
    .
    In 933 Emperor Romanus I Lekapenos appointed his youngest son, Theophylaktos (917-956) Patriarch (and thus bishop) of Constantinople aged 16.
    .
    Rannuccio Farnese (1530-1565) was made a Cardinal-deacon in 1545 age 15 by his grandfather Pope Paul III. He was also granted several bishoprics, including titular Latin Patriarch of Constantinople in 1546 age 15 or 16. His oldest brother Alessandro (1520-1589) was appointed Bishop of Monreal in Sicily in 1536 aged 15 years, 7 months, and 10 days.


    https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/48369/has-there-ever-been-an-archbishop-or-bishop-younger-than-the-16-year-old-james-o

    Offline AntiFellayism

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  • I apologize for quoting from the 83 Code. Here is the pertinent Canon (329) from the 1917 Code.
    TITULUS VIII:  De potestate episcopali deque iis qui de eadem participant

    CAPUT I:  De Episcopis

    Can 329 §1. Episcopi sunt Apostolorum successores atque ex divina institutione peculiaribus ecclesiis praeficiuntur quas cuм potestate ordinaria regunt sub auctoritate Romani Pontificis.
     §2. Eos libere nominat Romanus Pontifex.
     §3. Si cui collegio concessum sit ius eligendi Episcopum, servetur praescriptum can. 321.

    Can 330. Antequam quis in Episcopum assumatur, constare debet, secundum modum a Sede Apostolica determinatum, eum esse idoneum.

    Can 331 §1. Ut quis idoneus habeatur, debet esse:
     1º Natus ex legitimo matrimonio, non autem legitimatus etiam per subsequens matrimonium;
     2º Annos natus saltem triginta;
     3º A quinquennio saltem in sacro presbyteratus ordine constitutus;
     4º Bonis moribus, pietate, animarum zelo, prudentia, ceterisque dotibus, praeditus, quae ipsum aptum efficiant ad gubernandam dioecesim de qua agitur;
     5º Laurea doctoris vel saltem licentia in sacra theologia aut iure canonico potitus in athenaeo aliquo vel in Instituto studiorum a Sancta Sede probatis, vel saltem earundem disciplinarum vere peritus; quod si ad religionem aliquam pertineat, a suis Superioribus maioribus vel similem titulum vel saltem verae peritiae testimonium habeat.
     §2. Etiam electus, praesentatus vel quoquo modo ab illis designatus, qui privilegio a Sancta Sede concesso praesentandi seu designandi gaudent, debet memoratis qualitatibus pollere.
     §3. Iudicare num quis idoneus sit, ad Apostolicam Sedem unice pertinet.



    Are you seriously trying to quote the Code of Canon Law to condemn a new consecration of a traditional priest??

    Remember, if we have a "pope", all your quotes are moot, since "a bishop is not allowed to confer episcopal consecration on anyone without papal mandate." in the first place...
    (Canon 953, CIC [Code of Canon Law in Latin] 1917)

    Non Habemus Papam

    Offline Marion

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  • St. Alphonsus Liguori, consecrated at 30 year of age, pray for us!

    Ordained a priest at 30, and consecrated a bishop at 66 years old.

    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)