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Author Topic: Bishop Zendejas' Advice on 1962 Liturgy  (Read 5919 times)

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Offline Catholic Knight

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Re: Bishop Zendejas' Advice on 1962 Liturgy
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2023, 08:54:39 PM »
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  • It is clear that Archbishop Lefebvre did have a principle and a final decision on this matter of the liturgy. So too with sedevacantism, for which I refer you to my recent posting on sedevacantism from the Benedictine website. His final position, even after the meetings of Assisi and a Pope who had kissed the Koran, was that the Church has not settled this matter and that we should presume in favour of his being Pope, pray for him, yet "it is therefore a strict duty for any priest wanting to remain Catholic to separate himself from this Conciliar Church for as long as it does not rediscover the Tradition of the Church and of the Catholic Faith".

    Even though Archbishop Lefebvre died accepting John Paul II as pope, this does NOT mean that he would have accepted Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today.  As per his 1986 talk published in the Angelus Magazine, his position was that the evidence determines whether a claimant is pope or not.

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Bishop Zendejas' Advice on 1962 Liturgy
    « Reply #46 on: December 20, 2023, 11:27:05 PM »
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  • Even though Archbishop Lefebvre died accepting John Paul II as pope, this does NOT mean that he would have accepted Jorge Bergoglio as pope if he were alive today.  As per his 1986 talk published in the Angelus Magazine, his position was that the evidence determines whether a claimant is pope or not.
    Evidence like kissing the Koran and Assisi meetings? Read 'Peter Lovest Thou Me'.

    Conference to seminarians in Flavigny 1988:
        
    We could have adopted many different attitudes, and particularly that of radical opposition: “the Pope confesses to liberal ideas, therefore he is a heretic, therefore there is no pope anymore.” That is sedevacantism. “It is over, we do not look towards Rome.” “The cardinals promulgated by the Pope are not cardinals, all the decisions he makes are null.”
    It is an option with Pere Guérard des Lauriers and a few other priests who left us have taken: there is no longer a Pope.
    Personally, I have always seen it as too simple a logic. Reality is not so simple. One cannot accuse anyone of being a formal heretic so easily. That is why I have seen it right to remain on the side of underestimation and to maintain some contact with Rome, to think that there is a successor of Peter in Rome. A bad successor admittedly, that we must not follow because of his liberal and modernist ideas. But he is there, and in so far as he could convert, as St Thomas Aquinas said, we have the right to oppose the authorities, publicly, when they proclaim and profess errors.
    That is what we are doing. Who knows if the grace of God might ever touch him? I am sometimes being told: “It is utopic! You will never manage to convert him!” I do not hold many illusions, but it is not me who can convert him, it is God. So everything is possible” (Fideliter No. 68, pages 12-13).



    Offline Catholic Knight

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    Re: Bishop Zendejas' Advice on 1962 Liturgy
    « Reply #47 on: December 21, 2023, 08:18:46 AM »
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  • One cannot accuse anyone of being a formal heretic so easily. 

    This is the key.  Jorge Bergoglio is beyond doubt a public manifest formal heretic.

    Until one starts by accepting that the following proposition is a matter of Divine Catholic and Faith and not merely an opinion of some theologians, he cannot proceed to reject Jorge Bergoglio as pope:

    The pubic sin of manifest formal heresy per se (i.e., by its very nature) separates the heretic from the Church.

    Syllogism:

    The public sin of manifest formal heresy per se separates the heretic from the Church.
    But Jorge Bergoglio has committed the public sin of manifest formal heresy.
    Therefore, Jorge Bergoglio is separated from the Church.