Author Topic: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption? (Read 1794 times)

Twice dyed · « **on:** March 29, 2025, 10:51:41 AM »

I am not an expert in Theology, but I always believed that most of the holy saints would not dare to declare that they had the certitude of going to heaven. ..Except Fatima seers and rare cases. St Bernadette knew, but only because of privileged graces from Our Lady. St. Paul too.
We normally hear that we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling...till our last Brrreath!

*******
https://catholiccandle.org/2024/04/10/in-case-you-missed-it-april-2024/#_ftn2
Two excerpts/ publications:

"... Recently, The “new” liberal SSPX taught (heretically[2]) that we are all, always, unchangeably, in the state of Sanctifying Grace. Here are the N-SSPX’s words:

What never changes, no matter the state of things [is that] the divine life is in us.[3]
This statement is heretical for two reasons:
v First, it is false to claim that everyone possesses Sanctifying Grace – i.e., that the Divine Life Itself is within everyone – for the majority of men do not possess it.

v Second, it is false to claim that for those who at one time possessed grace, this possession “never changes, no matter the state of things”, as if this Divine Life could never be lost.
Many, even of those who call themselves “traditional Catholics”, vacillate between the state of grace and the state of mortal sin, whereas, the N-SSPX says that “what never changes” is that grace, “the divine life”, is in us.
This N-SSPX teaching promotes universal salvation. But it should not surprise us that the “new” SSPX promotes universal salvation, since that group promotes the vice of presumption in these words:
The virtue of hope gives us this certitude … we will see our God, that we will possess Him and willl [sic] be united to Him forever.
In other words, the “new” SSPX says Hope makes us sure we will go to heaven.[4] Faithful and informed Catholics know that this is not the description of the Virtue of Hope but rather of the vice of presumption.

Conclusion: Let us fulfil our duty to regularly study our Catholic Faith. Let us stay away from the “new” S...."

*****

[3] Here is the full quote, which is an ad for a book which the Angelus Press is selling:

The Courage to Be Afraid is remarkably different from other spiritual books. It is a tour de force that examines many aspects of the Christian life, yet, always returning to a simple, powerful theme: we have to let God act. Fr. Molinie addresses himself to us, children of the modern world, in order to recall us forcefully to what never changes, no matter the state of things: the divine life is in us, and will transform us if we surrender to it. “God’s love is a consuming fire”.

Quoted from the Angelus Press sales flyer sent to its mailing list about February 20, 2024 (emphasis added).

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2025, 04:14:43 PM »

On my opinion, you are reading too much into it.

"Divine life" is not a precise expression, as far as I know.

All the same, who is this Fr. Molinie? Is this a new book or an old work with a pre-conciliar imprimatur (which is not always a guarantee or orthodoxy. There were cripto-Modernists way before the 1960s)?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2025, 04:21:11 PM »

Need more context, but it just seems to indicate that IF we're in a state of grace the Divine Life is indeed within us ... which is true. One sentence taken completely out of context from anything around it is very difficult to make a judgment about. That sentence might be addressed hypothetically to someone who is (in the context of the passage) presumed to be in a state of grace. In other words, it could mean that, as long as we're in a state of grace, that stays constant admidst and despite all the vicissitudes of life. In other words, it's offered in constrast to all the vicissitudes and changing aspects of our lives to have that anchor of stability with God's Divine Life within us. That's also how the constancy might be understood, meaning that COMPARED to said vicissitudes, that remains constant, rather than in some absolute sense or in some sense where salvation cannot be lost (as some of the Prots believe). That's how I might read the sentence. There's a more natural sense in which it is true even for those not in a state of grace, since God must be in everyone and everything that exists, since all existence comes from Him. So IMO there isn't enough here to make a definitive judgment ... nor do these excerpts inspire me to be even curious about possibly reading the rest.

Michelle · « **Reply #3 on:** March 30, 2025, 09:09:42 PM »

Quote from: Twice dyed on March 29, 2025, 10:51:41 AM

I am not an expert in Theology, but I always believed that most of the holy saints would not dare to declare that they had the certitude of going to heaven. ..Except Fatima seers and rare cases. St Bernadette knew, but only because of privileged graces from Our Lady. St. Paul too.
We normally hear that we must work out our salvation in fear and trembling...till our last Brrreath!

*******
https://catholiccandle.org/2024/04/10/in-case-you-missed-it-april-2024/#_ftn2
Two excerpts/ publications:

"... Recently, The “new” liberal SSPX taught (heretically[2]) that we are all, always, unchangeably, in the state of Sanctifying Grace. Here are the N-SSPX’s words:

What never changes, no matter the state of things [is that] the divine life is in us.[3]
This statement is heretical for two reasons:
v First, it is false to claim that everyone possesses Sanctifying Grace – i.e., that the Divine Life Itself is within everyone – for the majority of men do not possess it.

v Second, it is false to claim that for those who at one time possessed grace, this possession “never changes, no matter the state of things”, as if this Divine Life could never be lost.
Many, even of those who call themselves “traditional Catholics”, vacillate between the state of grace and the state of mortal sin, whereas, the N-SSPX says that “what never changes” is that grace, “the divine life”, is in us.
This N-SSPX teaching promotes universal salvation. But it should not surprise us that the “new” SSPX promotes universal salvation, since that group promotes the vice of presumption in these words:
The virtue of hope gives us this certitude … we will see our God, that we will possess Him and willl [sic] be united to Him forever.
In other words, the “new” SSPX says Hope makes us sure we will go to heaven.[4] Faithful and informed Catholics know that this is not the description of the Virtue of Hope but rather of the vice of presumption.

Conclusion: Let us fulfil our duty to regularly study our Catholic Faith. Let us stay away from the “new” S...."

*****

[3] Here is the full quote, which is an ad for a book which the Angelus Press is selling:

The Courage to Be Afraid is remarkably different from other spiritual books. It is a tour de force that examines many aspects of the Christian life, yet, always returning to a simple, powerful theme: we have to let God act. Fr. Molinie addresses himself to us, children of the modern world, in order to recall us forcefully to what never changes, no matter the state of things: the divine life is in us, and will transform us if we surrender to it. “God’s love is a consuming fire”.

Quoted from the Angelus Press sales flyer sent to its mailing list about February 20, 2024 (emphasis added).

I don't know anything about this particular statement but the Angelus has put up different quotes from that book on my YouTube feed and I remember thinking that book seemed novus ordo like and too sentimental.

Seraphina · « **Reply #4 on:** March 30, 2025, 10:17:51 PM »

You forgot “if we surrender to it.” While it doesn’t seem like a book I’d rush out to read, it seems to me you are nit picking to find fault and misleading readers by quoting out of context. Obviously, if we fail to surrender our souls to Christ, then He is NOT always in us.

Twice dyed · « **Reply #5 on:** March 30, 2025, 10:42:59 PM »

Quote from: Michelle on March 30, 2025, 09:09:42 PM

I don't know anything about this particular statement but the Angelus has put up different quotes from that book on my YouTube feed and I remember thinking that book seemed novus ordo like and too sentimental.

About the OP link: that is Catholic Candle web page, not my comments. I am still neutral about this priest, or his background.
********
https://www.radio-en-ligne.fr/podcasts/le-cure-dars-et-vatican-ii-par-le-pere-marie-dominique-molinie-op

I've been researching this priest ( He was born May 29, 1918, died June 15, 2002 AD at Perpignan.) yesterday and today, my computer is constantly updating, plus I have weak internet. Anyway, There are seven Talks of his , in French, on the above link: that link has tons of ads...like Fox News!!

These were recorded in 1979, during a retreat at: Foyer de charite de Baye. So honestly I can't guess if he is Trad, simply because I haven't been able to listen much. He does say that the Eucharist and Thanksgiving, they are the same thing...Hmmm He is all for Gallicanism. He quoted St Cure of Ars and is wellread about most of the saint's sayings and writings and supernatural aura and gifts.
He only read the Vatican II docuмents around 1978, and mentions that Lumen Gentium and Dei Verbum brushes against long standing Church teaching...If someone isn't happy with these, well, these dogmatic Constitutions modified other docuмents, so if they can modify, well just be patient and then maybe someday these could be modified as well.
He introduces his week long retreat conference theme: St. Cure d"Ars and Vatican II. He was going to focus on St John Vianney's idea of Hell, and Vatican II's attitude towards hell.
Two days later a religious Brother asks him to change the topic and talk rather about:
" "Comment faire pour atteindre les jours ou on brule d'amour?" Translated: What must we do to attain those days where we burn out of love.." So looks like he shifted the theme!!?
He is a joy to listen to, 7 talks about 30 minutes each. "We are as blocks of wood, really cold wood (little spiritual desire for God, selfish, sinners etc.). ONLY God can create a fire...He is the match (so to speak) and He will decide if and when to inflame you. A block cannot move, so if the lighted match is 5" away, the wood will not ignite. There is nothing you can do. Only God can move the match closer, there is nothing to do but wait."
That's the flavor of his talks...
I'll keep you posted next Friday.
If someone else could listen to the talks on high speed internet, and make a sort of report, that would be great. PV...where are you?

Twice dyed · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2025, 11:14:46 AM »

Here are a couple of links at Remnant Newspaper that promote the book:
" The Courage to be Afraid" by Marie-Dominque Molinié

https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/6079-the-terribly-simple-need-to-go-all-in-for-christ

Aug 7, 2022

...As Fr. Molinié discusses, though, many Christians want to build a better world without this total confidence in God:

“We hear talk of building a better world. But what would be the interest of a so-called Christian world which did not rest upon the most foolish confidence in the mercy of God? We do not sigh enough after the heavenly Jerusalem, and we do not believe in it enough, so we settle for the in between hope of a better humanity.”

"...And so today we rapidly approach a climactic moment, in which those toxic fruits threaten not only our spiritual lives but even our material security. As Fr. Molinié wrote, this leaves us with a choice:

“When the empire of Satan unleashes its forces — and each time it does so — we need a new help from God: ‘Satan has desired to have you, to sift you as wheat.’ Those who understand cry out for help, they seek the face of God, and by force of begging, they do meet Him. On the contrary, those who let themselves be deluded by optimism are no longer pushed by distress to seek the face of Christ. Result: the meeting with God does not take place, because they have lost the habit of crying out for help. . . The first thing that God is waiting for is that we call out for help — it is the ‘Jesus prayer’ of Eastern Christians: ‘Jesus, have pity on me, a sinner!’”

...As Fr. Molinié wrote, the Blood of Christ is all powerful, but we are tempted (as now) to chase after other remedies:
“The Blood of Christ is all powerful, we cannot invoke the Name of Christ without being saved; ask and you shall receive — all of this is infallible; it is a rock: but we are tempted to run after something else.”
And so we are left with a choice: do we seek Christ or rely on our own efforts? It is not a choice between an active or inactive response to the crisis, as Fr. Molinié presents Saint Maximilian Kolbe as an example of one who relied entirely on Christ; and he did more than almost any of us ever will:
“When someone gives himself to God, it is never a difficulty for God to shower him with all the gifts that He gave Fr. Kolbe. The difficulty, even for God, is to find a free will that truly gives itself. There are not enough of these. It can be off by just a millimeter, but this millimeter is an abyss.”
These are challenging ideas, but they flow from the all-important fact that God is God and we are miserable sinners in great need of His mercy....

...It is thus terribly simple, as Fr. Molinié explains to end his short subchapter:

“You see, it is simple: it is terribly simple. Terribly in two senses. First because you take it or leave it. It is all or nothing: the absolute is terrible for us because we have a tendency to search for a middle ground between the best and the worst — eternal misery and eternal life. Terribly also, because the confidence which saves us is harsh on human nature: this simplicity of God crucifies us, it inflicts death on us . . . and resurrection, which can only come through death and the courage to be afraid.”
*********************
https://www.remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/6263-the-courage-to-commit-to-god-as-the-world-goes-to-hell
Dec 1, 2022
...Fr. Molinié began with a picture of the traumatic shocks his generation had faced:

“We are a generation traumatized by so many shocks: those who lived before these shocks would not be able to understand us, and neither could we understand them. Those who cling to human nature, expecting renewal from the remnants of goodness or stability in man, are building a house on sand, in my opinion. The floor has fallen out from under the feet of the current generation; they suffer such a void of understanding, such a calling into question of what was supposedly a foundation, that humanly speaking, there is no saving the situation. Our nervous balance is too out of whack, we don’t even know what fidelity to our given word means anymore, or what it means to keep a promise.” (pp. 161-162)

...But, as Fr. Molinié wrote, this is not cause for despair; rather, God permits it for our good if we will simply do what all souls have always been called to do, which is commit to Him with every fiber of our being:

“So we commit ourselves and we say ‘yes’ to God. Allow me to insist on this point: before our efforts, before our fidelity in detail, and before our initiatives, the first thing God asks us to say is ‘yes.’ This is not an ordinary act of virtue because it depends on the theological virtues alone . . . and the victory they obtain is rather a defeat, a surrender. What is going to happen afterwards? We do not know anything. Will we manage to hold on? We do not know that either, nor do we have to know: it is enough to trust, to give our trust. This little word fiat — this very simple and imperceptible act, by which we give ourselves into the hands of another — is the only collaboration that we can offer God: to say ‘yes’ to an action which is not ours.” (p. 163)

**************
I am still listening to his 1979 Retreat Instructions. The "Church of Poland" (sic) was being persecuted by Marxists at that time. So 26 years since he gave that retreat in 1953, Fr. Molinie has the 'courage' to admit that he could not go there. The clergy in Poland would not accept him. The Church of Poland is joyful, (the glory that the martyrs share) but at what cost? Forgive the executioners.
Seems he weakened his ideals a bit. He admits he has " a hardening (of heart), a comfortable hardening, more or less."
The Novus Ordo Church will eventually erode your Faith.
He does discuss Teilhard de Chardin's "anguish".
He did organize an All-Night adoration of the Blessed Sacrament in 1979.

From the link :https://www.radio-en-ligne.fr/podcasts/le-cure-dars-et-vatican-ii-par-le-pere-marie-dominique-molinie-op

[I suggest you disable Pop ups in your browser...]
Instruction 2/7, [You must scroll down a bit and clic Afficher autres sessions ]TimeStamp: 25:00 Rough translation: 'Plead to God for this Confidence, and put much effort and work that you may receive it.' ...
Instruction 3/7
TimeStamp 32:00 "The damned will be surrounded in fire ( but the saints in Heaven will be surrounded in love), as a fish in the ocean."
So this puts things more in context...Fr. Molinie does emphasise the necessary personal zeal to receive the choicest of graces. I'm sorry I was too rash.

Author Topic: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption? (Read 1794 times)

Twice dyed

NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?

Giovanni Berto

Re: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?

Ladislaus

Re: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?

Michelle

Re: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?

Seraphina

Re: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?

Twice dyed

Re: Marie-Dominique Molinie OP

Twice dyed

Re: NeoSspx, Virtue of Hope or Vice of Presumption?