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Author Topic: Bishop Williamson quoting Bp. de Galarreta in 2001  (Read 837 times)

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Offline cathman7

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Bishop Williamson quoting Bp. de Galarreta in 2001
« on: September 13, 2014, 10:34:59 PM »
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  • In his letter "Are There Nice Liberals?" from August 1, 2001, Bishop Williamson quotes a sermon Bishop de Galarreta gave on June 3, 2001 in Écône. Let me provide the quote after giving Bp. Williamson's comments first:

     When “nice” liberals make a “practical” offer, he says, it will still be a nasty offer. That is why the SSPX was right to refuse Rome’s recent offer, even if not all contacts with Rome need be cut off. Let me translate his text for you, while abbreviating and adapting certain parts to bring out his interesting analysis. Bishop de Galarreta speaks:

    Quote
    …From the beginning of these contacts with Rome, the SSPX wished to get into the major questions of doctrine and theology, faith and apostasy, while Rome wanted to give the contacts a purely practical character. We then somewhat lost interest because we knew where that would end up … Sure enough. To the two pre-conditions laid down by the SSPX for the resumption of SSPX-Rome discussions (liberation of the Tridentine Mass, nullification of the 1998 ‘excommunications’), Rome at last replied officially a few weeks ago by implicitly laying down its same old condition for the SSPX’s ‘re-integration’, namely acceptance of Vatican II, the New Mass, etc. In other words Rome would accept the SSPX as it stands, so long as it stopped opposing the Conciliar Revolution.

    But the SSPX as it stands is bound to oppose the Council. So Rome would be granting everything to the SSPX while taking it all away. Truly a fool’s bargain! For Rome began by saying, ‘Let us be practical and not doctrinal. Come in!’ The SSPX replied, ‘Fine! To be practical and not doctrinal, let us come in as we are, opposing the Council’. To which Rome replied, ‘To be practical and not doctrinal, come in as you are but do not oppose the Council’. We had, of course, run right back into the problem of Catholic doctrine against Conciliar doctrine. ‘Practicality’ was a mirage.

    It was only to be expected. Today’s modernists in Rome divide broadly into two groups: on the one hand the theoretical modernists, more logical and more consistently liberal and so less friendly to ourselves; on the other hand the pragmatic or practical modernists, closer to real life and so more friendly to ourselves, but correspondingly less consistent with their liberal principles and therefore objectively (I do not speak about personal sincerity or intentions) more false and two-faced in their dealings with ourselves.

    So when last year one of Rome’s practical modernists made us an apparently golden offer, the danger was not of the SSPX giving way in theory or in doctrine, because for all of us the doctrine of Tradition is beyond doubt or question. The great danger was rather of our giving way in practice by taking our desires for reality, by thinking that liberals (modernists) really can be nice, by believing that Rome was offering us what it really was not offering us, namely their acceptance of us on our own terms. In fact, as this official answer at last made clear, they will accept Tradition only on the Council’s terms. Rome having said it, at last things are now clear. It’s a shame, but that’s how it is.

    As for Rome’s offer being merely ‘practical’, remember that it was by mere ‘practicality’ that modernism was foisted upon the Catholic Church in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Take for example the New Mass. It was a select group of theologians and liturgists who concocted it almost out of thin air, and when Msgr. Bugnini presented it to Catholic bishops in 1967, it was rejected by a large majority. Yet it was the selfsame rite of Mass that Paul VI forced upon the Church in 1969, because a select few had constructed their new liturgy to fit their new religion, unwanted in theory by the mass of faithful, priests and bishops. But as this mass of Catholics out of obedience then practiced the new liturgy, so they came to accept and to believe in the new religion. Doctrinal Modernism had triumphed by ‘practicality’. Crammer used exactly the same ‘practicality’ to enable Protestant doctrine to take over the Church in England in the 16th century.

    Now Rome is trying to do the same thing again. The SSPX is to be granted everything in theory, so long as it accepts the Council in practice. That is like saying to policemen, ‘Talk as much as you like in theory against theft and crime, but do not lay a finger on any thief or criminal. They have their rights, and in practice they must be left to do what they want’. It is like telling the SSPX, ‘Play Don Quixote to your heart’s content, tilt at all the theoretical windmills you wish, but do not touch the practical realities’.

    But the SSPX cannot accept such a ‘practical’ deal. In practice, modernist Rome is destroying the Faith. It is not a problem of persons or obedience or charity or discipline or respect or whatever. IT IS A PRACTICAL PROBLEM OF THE FAITH. We can accept no ‘practical agreement’ which would mean silencing the voice of Tradition, the voice of the Catholic Faith. We can only defend the Truth, yet the Truth is what Rome is asking us to keep quiet. That is why we can only refuse Rome’s ‘practical’ offer.

    However, we are not slamming the door on Rome, because we want to be able to keep presenting our doctrinal objections to the destruction of the Faith. So if anyone says to me we should cut off all contacts with Rome, I reply ‘No’, or ‘It depends’. That is a judgment to be made in each succeeding situation. In general, we should maintain contacts with the Romans because God alone knows when He will give them grace to recognize that we are right. In any case, our duty is to bear witness to the Truth, and to explain our stand, in Rome or wherever, but especially in Rome.


    My simple question is: what has substantially changed today?


    Offline Sienna629

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    Bishop Williamson quoting Bp. de Galarreta in 2001
    « Reply #1 on: September 14, 2014, 09:12:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: obscurus
    In his letter "Are There Nice Liberals?" from August 1, 2001, Bishop Williamson quotes a sermon Bishop de Galarreta gave on June 3, 2001 in Écône. Let me provide the quote after giving Bp. Williamson's comments first:

     When “nice” liberals make a “practical” offer, he says, it will still be a nasty offer. That is why the SSPX was right to refuse Rome’s recent offer, even if not all contacts with Rome need be cut off. Let me translate his text for you, while abbreviating and adapting certain parts to bring out his interesting analysis. Bishop de Galarreta speaks:

    Quote
    …From the beginning of these contacts with Rome, the SSPX wished to get into the major questions of doctrine and theology, faith and apostasy, while Rome wanted to give the contacts a purely practical character. We then somewhat lost interest because we knew where that would end up … Sure enough. To the two pre-conditions laid down by the SSPX for the resumption of SSPX-Rome discussions (liberation of the Tridentine Mass, nullification of the 1998 ‘excommunications’), Rome at last replied officially a few weeks ago by implicitly laying down its same old condition for the SSPX’s ‘re-integration’, namely acceptance of Vatican II, the New Mass, etc. In other words Rome would accept the SSPX as it stands, so long as it stopped opposing the Conciliar Revolution.

    But the SSPX as it stands is bound to oppose the Council. So Rome would be granting everything to the SSPX while taking it all away. Truly a fool’s bargain! For Rome began by saying, ‘Let us be practical and not doctrinal. Come in!’ The SSPX replied, ‘Fine! To be practical and not doctrinal, let us come in as we are, opposing the Council’. To which Rome replied, ‘To be practical and not doctrinal, come in as you are but do not oppose the Council’. We had, of course, run right back into the problem of Catholic doctrine against Conciliar doctrine. ‘Practicality’ was a mirage.

    It was only to be expected. Today’s modernists in Rome divide broadly into two groups: on the one hand the theoretical modernists, more logical and more consistently liberal and so less friendly to ourselves; on the other hand the pragmatic or practical modernists, closer to real life and so more friendly to ourselves, but correspondingly less consistent with their liberal principles and therefore objectively (I do not speak about personal sincerity or intentions) more false and two-faced in their dealings with ourselves.

    So when last year one of Rome’s practical modernists made us an apparently golden offer, the danger was not of the SSPX giving way in theory or in doctrine, because for all of us the doctrine of Tradition is beyond doubt or question. The great danger was rather of our giving way in practice by taking our desires for reality, by thinking that liberals (modernists) really can be nice, by believing that Rome was offering us what it really was not offering us, namely their acceptance of us on our own terms. In fact, as this official answer at last made clear, they will accept Tradition only on the Council’s terms. Rome having said it, at last things are now clear. It’s a shame, but that’s how it is.

    As for Rome’s offer being merely ‘practical’, remember that it was by mere ‘practicality’ that modernism was foisted upon the Catholic Church in the 1960’s and 1970’s. Take for example the New Mass. It was a select group of theologians and liturgists who concocted it almost out of thin air, and when Msgr. Bugnini presented it to Catholic bishops in 1967, it was rejected by a large majority. Yet it was the selfsame rite of Mass that Paul VI forced upon the Church in 1969, because a select few had constructed their new liturgy to fit their new religion, unwanted in theory by the mass of faithful, priests and bishops. But as this mass of Catholics out of obedience then practiced the new liturgy, so they came to accept and to believe in the new religion. Doctrinal Modernism had triumphed by ‘practicality’. Crammer used exactly the same ‘practicality’ to enable Protestant doctrine to take over the Church in England in the 16th century.

    Now Rome is trying to do the same thing again. The SSPX is to be granted everything in theory, so long as it accepts the Council in practice. That is like saying to policemen, ‘Talk as much as you like in theory against theft and crime, but do not lay a finger on any thief or criminal. They have their rights, and in practice they must be left to do what they want’. It is like telling the SSPX, ‘Play Don Quixote to your heart’s content, tilt at all the theoretical windmills you wish, but do not touch the practical realities’.

    But the SSPX cannot accept such a ‘practical’ deal. In practice, modernist Rome is destroying the Faith. It is not a problem of persons or obedience or charity or discipline or respect or whatever. IT IS A PRACTICAL PROBLEM OF THE FAITH. We can accept no ‘practical agreement’ which would mean silencing the voice of Tradition, the voice of the Catholic Faith. We can only defend the Truth, yet the Truth is what Rome is asking us to keep quiet. That is why we can only refuse Rome’s ‘practical’ offer.

    However, we are not slamming the door on Rome, because we want to be able to keep presenting our doctrinal objections to the destruction of the Faith. So if anyone says to me we should cut off all contacts with Rome, I reply ‘No’, or ‘It depends’. That is a judgment to be made in each succeeding situation. In general, we should maintain contacts with the Romans because God alone knows when He will give them grace to recognize that we are right. In any case, our duty is to bear witness to the Truth, and to explain our stand, in Rome or wherever, but especially in Rome.


    My simple question is: what has substantially changed today?



    Answer:   The stance of the Neo-SSPX leaders, +Fellay and cohorts


    Offline stgobnait

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    Bishop Williamson quoting Bp. de Galarreta in 2001
    « Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 02:13:48 AM »
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  • including B de G.