Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context  (Read 1658 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr G

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2128
  • Reputation: +1326/-87
  • Gender: Male
Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
« on: November 17, 2018, 10:24:37 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • From "Seraphim" on another forum referring to this:


    Interesting points of reference:
    0:35 – The future of the SSPX depends on Fr. Pagliarani, but it doesn’t look like he wants to turn things around (evidence for this opinion);
    4:27 – Fr. Pagliarani was once a sedevacantist (but this indicates liberalism, not rigorous traditionalism);
    9:13 – Don Putti (founder of SiSiNoNo) told Archbishop Lefebvre, “Half your seminarians are modernists.”
    11:06 – The modernists were gaining control of the SSPX since the 1980’s, even before Archbishop Lefebvre died;
    16:13 – The neo-SSPX priests are telling the faithful everything is OK; SSPX is going with the flow now;
    17:18 – Schema presented for the conference on the slide of the SSPX in historical context;
    20:20 – The last age of the Church will also generate some of the greatest saints in history (the reason God allows the persecution and seeming collapse of His Church);
    44:25 – Bishop Fellay and the “spiritual priests” of the SSPX do not understand that liberalism wants their blood;
    56:45 – Bishop Fellay does not understand how liberalism applies in today’s world, and therefore does not understand Rome; understanding liberalism is a gift from God;
    1:22:20 – Where today are the Maccabees who are going to stand up and fight?
    1:23:00 – Archbishop Lefebvre dies in 1991, and by 1997 you have the GREC (exposition on GREC follows);
    1:28:10 – The contents of the doctrinal discussions with Rome were never published as promised, because if they were, it would prove no doctrinal agreement with modernist Rome was possible; the solution was that since there could be no doctrinal agreement, therefore we will have a practical agreement (agreement at all cost);
    1:32:45 – Bishop Fellay has never suggested that his policy of going in with modernist Rome was wrong; he is still committed to it; it does not look like the Society will change track on this;
    1:35:00 – Francis is out to destroy the Church, but Bishop Fellay says he is the Society’s good friend;
    1:37:00 – Pessimism: The Resistance is not capable of organization today; perhaps if Archbishop Lefebvre were alive;
    1:40:00 – Questions or disagreements? Bishop Williamson acknowledges that you may disagree there is so little that can be done;
    1:42:50 – The Russians suffered under 70 years of Jєωιѕн (communist) rule, so now the Russians are coming back to religion [albeit a false one]; the conversion of Russia will be the conversion of Russia from Orthodoxy to Eastern Catholicism after the consecration of Russia.


    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2785
    • Reputation: +2885/-512
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #1 on: November 17, 2018, 11:19:13 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • I have to wonder why HE spends so much time focused upon +Fellay and newly elected SG Pagliarani. No great wisdom is needed to understand that Fr. P. will never turn things around in the Society. I think that most of us know this almost intuitively. Pagliarani is a company man, whose appointment had to pass muster with +Fellay & Co. This is not rocket science. So why does HE bother to explain that which most dialed in trads already realize?
    At this point, I speculate, neither +Fellay or SG Pagliarani mean anything to most of us, and more importantly, they mean little for the restoration of true Catholic tradition. Their time came and passed. Hopefully, most have moved on as best they can. For those who long nostalgically for the good ‘ol days of sspx, please get over it. Renew devotion to the Hearts of Jesus and Mary. Say more Rosaries and be patient. The Beast’s days are numbered.
    BTW, if it is true that half the sspx seminarians were “modernists” in the 80s, don’t both Bp. Williamson and the Archbishop bear at least some responsibility for that? After all, they were in charge of the formation of these prospective priests.
    I’ve always greatly admired and respected Bp. W. But I get a little concerned by his frequent references to a has-been, compromising bishop like +Fellay and an effete new sspx leader like Fr. P. Let us all look forward to the eventual triumph of Mary’s Immaculate Heart. I, for one, refuse to look back at what was, or, alas, may never have been.
    Pray for the true Consecration of Russia and a period of peace to follow.


    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10055
    • Reputation: +5252/-916
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #2 on: November 17, 2018, 11:26:20 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0

  • 4:27 – Fr. Pagliarani was once a sedevacantist (but this indicates liberalism, not rigorous traditionalism);
    :jester:
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline wallflower

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1866
    • Reputation: +1983/-96
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #3 on: November 17, 2018, 11:41:23 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I have to wonder why HE spends so much time focused upon +Fellay and newly elected SG Pagliarani. No great wisdom is needed to understand that Fr. P. will never turn things around in the Society.

    I’ve always greatly admired and respected Bp. W. But I get a little concerned by his frequent references to a has-been, compromising bishop like +Fellay and an effete new sspx leader like Fr. P.

    You assume everyone knows what you know. People are at all different stages and there are many who still need to hear this. Even those who know it benefit from hearing it again. Any good story, especially a cautionary tale, deserves to be told and retold and retold. There is always something to learn from it, even for those who already know it. Combine that point with the old saying that those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, and I can listen to this story any and every time +Williamson wants to tell it.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10305
    • Reputation: +6215/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #4 on: November 17, 2018, 12:25:34 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    I have to wonder why HE spends so much time focused upon +Fellay and newly elected SG Pagliarani. ...So why does HE bother to explain that which most dialed in trads already realize?
    I think for both +W and many other former sspx'ers, they are still coming to grips with reality, on an emotional level, even if logically, they would agree with you.  Going through grief over the loss of the sspx, which many gave decades of their life to, is a tough thing.

    Quote
    Hopefully, most have moved on as best they can. For those who long nostalgically for the good ‘ol days of sspx, please get over it.
    It's easier for some to move on from the sspx because they weren't dependent upon them for the sacraments/mass for decades.  It's easier for an outsider like me (who is blessed to attend an independent mass) to be insulated from their chaos and also to unbiasly view the +Fellay's politics for what they are - lies and subversion.  Let's pray for our fellow catholics who need fortitude to leave the sspx, the prudence to make the decision quickly and the grace to deal with their emotions.

    Quote
    BTW, if it is true that half the sspx seminarians were “modernists” in the 80s, don’t both Bp. Williamson and the Archbishop bear at least some responsibility for that? After all, they were in charge of the formation of these prospective priests.
    Modernism/liberalism affects one's thinking first, on a purely logical level, before it even comes close to affecting your view of V2 and religion.  Resetting one's thinking from liberal/protestant/modernist thought can take years.  I'm sure +W and +L did their best.  You can lead a horse to water...


    Offline hollingsworth

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2785
    • Reputation: +2885/-512
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 05:11:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    People are at all different stages and there are many who still need to hear this.

    The question still remains:  Why do people need to hear this?  What spiritual/religious objective does hearing more of this accomplish for the hearer?  IMO, all it does is reinforce the idea that the situation with the sspx might change, and even ameliorate.  But it won't.  The Society has set a course towards Rome, and there is no leader inside that organization in a position, or with a desire, to re-set it, or to send it in a different direction.  So why hold out any hope that such a thing might happen?  I can not believe that HE actually thinks it will.  So why does he keep kicking this dead horse?

    Offline Mithrandylan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4452
    • Reputation: +5061/-436
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #6 on: November 17, 2018, 10:19:48 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Kudos to the OP for doing something that should really be, I think, customary: providing a summary itemized by minute marks for conference type videos, sermons, etc.  This allows viewers who do not have an hour and a half to jump to parts which are more interesting to them or to know which parts to jump to if they want to join the current thread of discussion.  You got a thumbs up for that!
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Nick

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 129
    • Reputation: +106/-210
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #7 on: November 18, 2018, 05:10:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "Russians are coming back to religion [albeit a false one]; the conversion of Russia will be the conversion of Russia from Orthodoxy to Eastern Catholicism after the consecration of Russia"

    Lol, I'd bet on ROC & ROCOR any day ( orthodoxy allied with state/national  power ) as the only hope of preserving the remnants of Christian civilization over 'eastern catholicism' which is allied with chaos Frank and his cabal of ' merry men '.


    Offline josefamenendez

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4421
    • Reputation: +2946/-199
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Bishop Williamson Conference: The SSPX in Historical Context
    « Reply #8 on: November 18, 2018, 08:21:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • "But is it real?"  10:48