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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: John XYZ on October 29, 2017, 07:07:05 PM

Title: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: John XYZ on October 29, 2017, 07:07:05 PM
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OAgTn5wuNHA/WfXGXhqiDlI/AAAAAAAACUY/HzEf6-xqe1UiRQOFhNVAEGCVXNdoNu8swCLcBGAs/s640/thumbnail2.jpg) (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OAgTn5wuNHA/WfXGXhqiDlI/AAAAAAAACUY/HzEf6-xqe1UiRQOFhNVAEGCVXNdoNu8swCLcBGAs/s1600/thumbnail2.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hI7boGq-F2w/WfXGWbtuCvI/AAAAAAAACUU/UBKPOeBK3Bc1c4LLL9HwrDdKobWkBfqHQCLcBGAs/s640/thumbnail1.jpg) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hI7boGq-F2w/WfXGWbtuCvI/AAAAAAAACUU/UBKPOeBK3Bc1c4LLL9HwrDdKobWkBfqHQCLcBGAs/s1600/thumbnail1.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vVdXbqzmsFE/WfXGYu6zvUI/AAAAAAAACUc/FffbDwOYgp0mDAdknaIUvgI5rDS4JA3_gCLcBGAs/s640/thumbnail3.jpg) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vVdXbqzmsFE/WfXGYu6zvUI/AAAAAAAACUc/FffbDwOYgp0mDAdknaIUvgI5rDS4JA3_gCLcBGAs/s1600/thumbnail3.jpg)
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s6JBgi15YVI/WfSQfmoQo5I/AAAAAAAACTs/EJpbQPiBYbg3PTjzUN3BxMYDqVWrUJrLQCLcBGAs/s640/4Obispos3.jpg) (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s6JBgi15YVI/WfSQfmoQo5I/AAAAAAAACTs/EJpbQPiBYbg3PTjzUN3BxMYDqVWrUJrLQCLcBGAs/s1600/4Obispos3.jpg)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h5PFfJpycWg/WfSTpRSm-wI/AAAAAAAACT8/BXfMbNMtz3YReB36TMcgyRfIzomKz2iMACLcBGAs/s640/Obispos%2B4.jpg) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h5PFfJpycWg/WfSTpRSm-wI/AAAAAAAACT8/BXfMbNMtz3YReB36TMcgyRfIzomKz2iMACLcBGAs/s1600/Obispos%2B4.jpg)

Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on October 29, 2017, 07:16:39 PM
When were these photos were taken?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: John XYZ on October 30, 2017, 07:38:42 AM
They were taken on October 28th and 29th, 2017.

http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fatima-los-obispos-de-la-resistencia.html (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fatima-los-obispos-de-la-resistencia.html)
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on October 30, 2017, 10:06:50 AM
What is the meaning of this?

Four smiling men in front of a cathedral which now under a false religion?

Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: klasG4e on October 30, 2017, 02:49:46 PM
What is the meaning of this?

Four smiling men in front of a cathedral which now under a false religion?
"Technical point"  -- They are actually standing in front of one of the two basilicas, Santuário de Nossa Senhora de Fátima, of the
Roman Catholic Diocese of Leiria–Fátima.  The actual cathedral of said diocese is
Sé Catedral de Nossa Senhora da Conceição, dedicated to Our lady of the Cocnception in Leiria.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: John XYZ on October 30, 2017, 03:18:40 PM
To JPaul (https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/JPaul/)

When will Catholics understand the value of the bishops who wish, with all their hearts, to remain faithful to the true Faith ?


Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: John XYZ on October 30, 2017, 03:20:16 PM
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-agTtM0pJ4sE/WfcXIevMB0I/AAAAAAAACXc/FNjh_IGBoXw-DWNF8VGyHqpzfUTOryIwgCLcBGAs/s640/blanchet%2B068.JPG) (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-agTtM0pJ4sE/WfcXIevMB0I/AAAAAAAACXc/FNjh_IGBoXw-DWNF8VGyHqpzfUTOryIwgCLcBGAs/s1600/blanchet%2B068.JPG)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SwkbmZljfH8/WfcR4CQScBI/AAAAAAAACVQ/5fKUgftZskIw8qBCozYunRv1tytKLuiywCLcBGAs/s640/blanchet%2B026.JPG) (https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-SwkbmZljfH8/WfcR4CQScBI/AAAAAAAACVQ/5fKUgftZskIw8qBCozYunRv1tytKLuiywCLcBGAs/s1600/blanchet%2B026.JPG)(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-61YfWoP7Heg/WfcUjXV4FzI/AAAAAAAACWg/4NEuUf2jXfUX-29giUa7yO4FT4Q-rKVpACLcBGAs/s640/blanchet%2B049.JPG) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-61YfWoP7Heg/WfcUjXV4FzI/AAAAAAAACWg/4NEuUf2jXfUX-29giUa7yO4FT4Q-rKVpACLcBGAs/s1600/blanchet%2B049.JPG)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UC9xG9U7YM8/WfcUOc6lyNI/AAAAAAAACWY/YWxrzzKJc_Yo6Y_2niB6mMPrk6tRDVToQCLcBGAs/s640/blanchet%2B048.JPG) (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UC9xG9U7YM8/WfcUOc6lyNI/AAAAAAAACWY/YWxrzzKJc_Yo6Y_2niB6mMPrk6tRDVToQCLcBGAs/s1600/blanchet%2B048.JPG)

http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fotos-de-la-peregrinacion-de-los.html (http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.ca/2017/10/fotos-de-la-peregrinacion-de-los.html)
 (https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f8B_DK2dQmY/WfcTqgE5gpI/AAAAAAAACWM/ukVWSX1TjFgmokOSHmoUbm4EbHd7CJTKwCLcBGAs/s1600/blanchet%2B042.JPG)
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: josefamenendez on October 31, 2017, 07:45:51 AM
God bless our good and holy Bishops! (I wish I were there, too!)
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on October 31, 2017, 08:46:50 AM
To JPaul (https://www.cathinfo.com/profile/JPaul/)

When will Catholics understand the value of the bishops who wish, with all their hearts, to remain faithful to the true Faith ?
We can have no idea what are the true desires of any man's heart.  
That being said, posturing in favor of an apparition, as so many have done, may make some of the faithful feel good and pious, and may be a well intentioned symbolic gesture, but holding a vigil in front of the Vatican and denouncing the present and past heresies of its occupants would actually be a concrete act against the revolution. Even here in Fatima the desecration of the once holy buildings by the Novus Ordo false religion could be protested and denounced, but? It does not give a Catholic much reason to smile, does it?
So many have used and abused the Fatima warnings in our times that it has become like a trip to the "western wall".  Almost all of the conciliar popes have stood nearby smiling as well so, what does it mean?
The SSPX has tours with the statuary of Fatima. It too is piously symbolic in a way, but also, its good for business and raising money.

Rome is just over the hill there, its time to carry forth with the commitment of resisting and defending the Faith against its enemies.

Otherwise, what does it mean, and what is it for?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Meg on October 31, 2017, 09:38:01 AM
We can have no idea what are the true desires of any man's heart.  
That being said, posturing in favor of an apparition, as so many have done, may make some of the faithful feel good and pious, and may be a well intentioned symbolic gesture, but holding a vigil in front of the Vatican and denouncing the present and past heresies of its occupants would actually be a concrete act against the revolution. Even here in Fatima the desecration of the once holy buildings by the Novus Ordo false religion could be protested and denounced, but? It does not give a Catholic much reason to smile, does it?
So many have used and abused the Fatima warnings in our times that it has become like a trip to the "western wall".  Almost all of the conciliar popes have stood nearby smiling as well so, what does it mean?
The SSPX has tours with the statuary of Fatima. It too is piously symbolic in a way, but also, its good for business and raising money.

Rome is just over the hill there, its time to carry forth with the commitment of resisting and defending the Faith against its enemies.

Otherwise, what does it mean, and what is it for?

I think you raise some important ideas above. But how would a trad carry forth with the commitment of resisting and defending the faith? I ask this in all seriousness. 

You mention holding a vigil in front of the Vatican and denouncing the present and past heresies of its occupants,  which I've often thought would be a good idea - except that the Swiss Guards would likely put a stop to that. But just trying to do SOMETHING would be better than nothing. 

I think you're right, though. For the four bishops to visit Fatima - it doesn't really do much in the way of fighting for the Faith, though maybe I've missed something.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: hollingsworth on October 31, 2017, 11:21:00 AM
Fatima is exactly the place where the four bishops should have posed for photos.  Fatima should be our focus today, as well.  It's message has still not been fulfilled in its entirety.  Even Benedict XVI admitted this, albeit reluctantly.  He had read the 3rd Secret, and knew full well that the "Message of Fatima," which he helped disseminate in 2000, under the auspices of Cdl. Sodano, with full approval from JP2, was essentially a thinly disguised fabrication.
For those CI folks who are semi-persuaded that Fatima is passe and outdated. I add a word of caution.  Fatima is still very much at the center of the spiritual universe.  All spiritual favors transmitted  from Our Lord, and received by us, are done so through the appointed Mediatrix of all graces.  Jesus Christ has so willed and established that arrangement.
Mary has been given many names down through the centuries.  In these last days She is most prominently "Our Lady of Fatima." Take heed to Her and embrace Her.
According to Father Agustin Fuentes, in an interview with Sr. Lucy in 1957, we learn that there are just "two last remedies" for mankind:  1)Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and, 2) The Rosary, which has been given a "new efficacy."  Should some Catholics treat these two last remedies dismissively, they can become guilty of "sin against the Holy Spirit."  Not my words, but the words of Our Lady, as told to Lucy and conveyed to the faithful through Fr. Fuentes.

I include below a summary of the testimony above.  It is a page taken from Mark Fellow's book, Fatima in Twilight, pg/ 282.





"According to Father Fuentes, Lucy said the Blessed Virgin told her and Francisco and Jacinta that "God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies, which signify that there will be no others." Lucy told Fuentes that God had offered the world the Blessed Virgin Mary as "the last means of salvation," and declared: "If you despise and repulse this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven because we will have committed a sin. which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit. This sin consists of openly rejecting with full knowledge and consent the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary... There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary...we will save ourselves... console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls...
"Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Most Holy Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of goodness, and of pardon and the certain door by which we are to enter Heaven.

 


 
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: St Ignatius on October 31, 2017, 11:25:00 AM
I've no recollection of any such criticism of say The March for Life, thousands of clergy and faithful participate annually in front of the Nation's capital building...

I'm of the opinion that it's futile, faithful participating in a event which is based solely on the moto of it's foundress... "to provide all Americans with a place to testify to the beauty of life and the dignity of each human person"

The message of Fatima is only growing of a greater importance by the day. Hardly worthy of criticism, IMO. 
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: John XYZ on October 31, 2017, 03:19:26 PM
JPaul said : ''We can have no idea what are the true desires of any man's heart.''


Dear friend, there is no basis to doubt the sincerity of Bishop Williamson. The good bishop said once in one of his sermon : ''The modern world wants us to abandon God, but we must refuse. If the alternative is martyrdom, so be it '' Honestly, I can't doubt of the sincerity of a bishop who have a so noble and steadfast heart.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Merry on October 31, 2017, 03:58:09 PM
In what chapel are they kneeling in the top couple of photos?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Last Tradhican on October 31, 2017, 04:10:23 PM
posturing in favor of an apparition, as so many have done, may make some of the faithful feel good and pious, and may be a well intentioned symbolic gesture, but holding a vigil in front of the Vatican and denouncing the present and past heresies of its occupants would actually be a concrete act against the revolution. 
To be fair, I've never heard of a sede bishop "holding a vigil in front of the Vatican and denouncing the present and past heresies of its occupants ". The sede bishops do however denounce "the present and past heresies of its occupants" as heresies". The Resistance bishops have their R&R position, which does not allow them the freedom to say what they really believe in their hearts.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Neil Obstat on October 31, 2017, 10:48:11 PM
Fatima is exactly the place where the four bishops should have posed for photos.  Fatima should be our focus today, as well.  It's message has still not been fulfilled in its entirety.  Even Benedict XVI admitted this, albeit reluctantly.  He had read the 3rd Secret, and knew full well that the "Message of Fatima," which he helped disseminate in 2000, under the auspices of Cdl. Sodano, with full approval from JP2, was essentially a thinly disguised fabrication.
For those CI folks who are semi-persuaded that Fatima is passe and outdated. I add a word of caution.  Fatima is still very much at the center of the spiritual universe.  All spiritual favors transmitted  from Our Lord, and received by us, are done so through the appointed Mediatrix of all graces.  Jesus Christ has so willed and established that arrangement.
Mary has been given many names down through the centuries.  In these last days She is most prominently "Our Lady of Fatima." Take heed to Her and embrace Her.
According to Father Agustin Fuentes, in an interview with Sr. Lucy in 1957, we learn that there are just "two last remedies" for mankind:  1)Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and, 2) The Rosary, which has been given a "new efficacy."  Should some Catholics treat these two last remedies dismissively, they can become guilty of "sin against the Holy Spirit."  Not my words, but the words of Our Lady, as told to Lucy and conveyed to the faithful through Fr. Fuentes.

I include below a summary of the testimony above.  It is a page taken from Mark Fellow's book, Fatima in Twilight, pg/ 282.



"According to Father Fuentes, Lucy said the Blessed Virgin told her and Francisco and Jacinta that "God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies, which signify that there will be no others." Lucy told Fuentes that God had offered the world the Blessed Virgin Mary as "the last means of salvation," and declared: "If you despise and repulse this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven because we will have committed a sin. which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit. This sin consists of openly rejecting with full knowledge and consent the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.

"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary... There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary...we will save ourselves... console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls...

"Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Most Holy Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of goodness, and of pardon and the certain door by which we are to enter Heaven.

.
This was an uplifting post to read, so thank you, hollingsworth!
.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Maria Regina on November 01, 2017, 06:24:11 AM
We are in the Last Days, of this my own spiritual father is convinced.

Not only has the Rosary fallen into disfavor among the Novus Ordo Catholics, but also the Supplicatory Prayers to the Most Holy Theotokos (Paraclesis) have fallen into disuse among the Eastern Catholics and the Orthodox. For those who have never prayed the Paraclesis, it is awesome as the The Holy Virgin Mary, as the Immaculate One, is petitioned repeatedly throughout those holy hymns.

We need to increase our prayer life as most people are neglecting theirs.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Meg on November 01, 2017, 08:57:15 AM
Fatima is exactly the place where the four bishops should have posed for photos.  Fatima should be our focus today, as well.  It's message has still not been fulfilled in its entirety.  Even Benedict XVI admitted this, albeit reluctantly.  He had read the 3rd Secret, and knew full well that the "Message of Fatima," which he helped disseminate in 2000, under the auspices of Cdl. Sodano, with full approval from JP2, was essentially a thinly disguised fabrication.
For those CI folks who are semi-persuaded that Fatima is passe and outdated. I add a word of caution.  Fatima is still very much at the center of the spiritual universe.  All spiritual favors transmitted  from Our Lord, and received by us, are done so through the appointed Mediatrix of all graces.  Jesus Christ has so willed and established that arrangement.
Mary has been given many names down through the centuries.  In these last days She is most prominently "Our Lady of Fatima." Take heed to Her and embrace Her.
According to Father Agustin Fuentes, in an interview with Sr. Lucy in 1957, we learn that there are just "two last remedies" for mankind:  1)Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and, 2) The Rosary, which has been given a "new efficacy."  Should some Catholics treat these two last remedies dismissively, they can become guilty of "sin against the Holy Spirit."  Not my words, but the words of Our Lady, as told to Lucy and conveyed to the faithful through Fr. Fuentes.

I include below a summary of the testimony above.  It is a page taken from Mark Fellow's book, Fatima in Twilight, pg/ 282.





"According to Father Fuentes, Lucy said the Blessed Virgin told her and Francisco and Jacinta that "God is giving two last remedies to the world. These are the Holy Rosary and Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. These are the last two remedies, which signify that there will be no others." Lucy told Fuentes that God had offered the world the Blessed Virgin Mary as "the last means of salvation," and declared: "If you despise and repulse this ultimate means we will not have any more forgiveness from Heaven because we will have committed a sin. which the Gospel calls the sin against the Holy Spirit. This sin consists of openly rejecting with full knowledge and consent the salvation which He offers. Let us remember that Jesus Christ is a very good Son and that He does not permit that we offend and despise His Most Holy Mother.
"The Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given new efficacy to the recitation of the Rosary... There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary...we will save ourselves... console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls...
"Finally, devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, Our Most Holy Mother, consists in considering Her as the seat of mercy, of goodness, and of pardon and the certain door by which we are to enter Heaven.

 


 

That's a very good post. I would agree that the two last remedies are important. But does this mean that there is no longer any need to actively denounce the errors of Rome? Because I'm not seeing much of that from the four bishops. They could confront Pope Francis directly, regarding his errors and heresies, but they don't.

We accuse the SSPX leadership of not confronting Francis, but the four bishops of the Resistance don't do so either. Not that Francis would pay much attention, but maybe that's not the point. 

The bishops have a luxurious mansion on the east coast of the U.S., meaning that they have a good monetary base. But they don't have the will to speak out and protest against Francis in a way that will defend the Faith against heresies. It's good to provide Mass centers for the faithful. But Archbishop Lefebvre was about more than that. 
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: ark of covenant on November 01, 2017, 10:11:27 AM
For all those enquiring where the chapel was. It was in the basement of hotel Lynn's, Fatima. I was there with many others, and I am ashamed that not many of you came to Fatima. I am sure many of you had genuine reasons for your absence, those I don't blame you in this message.
Those who wrongfully think we shouldn't be there because of its NO occupancy, we went there for Our Lady of Fatima not for the not the NO occupants. 
I for one will not apologize for being there for the 100th anniversary of the apparition.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: hollingsworth on November 01, 2017, 10:52:30 AM
 Neil:for 
thanks for that.  your comment makes my day.  we are well advised to take Our Lady's words seriously, even if we get them third hand through Fr. Fuentes.  This priest was accused of lying by the Coimbra chancery and dismissed from his post as postulator for Jacinta and Francisco. Fr. Alonzo, official Vatican historian of the Fatima events, thought, initially, that fr. fuentes had lied and twisted Lucy's words.  Later, upon further investigation, he changed his mind, and confirmed the testimony of fr. fuentes.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 02, 2017, 09:43:52 AM
For all those enquiring where the chapel was. It was in the basement of hotel Lynn's, Fatima. I was there with many others, and I am ashamed that not many of you came to Fatima. I am sure many of you had genuine reasons for your absence, those I don't blame you in this message.
Those who wrongfully think we shouldn't be there because of its NO occupancy, we went there for Our Lady of Fatima not for the not the NO occupants.
I for one will not apologize for being there for the 100th anniversary of the apparition.
It is admirable to travel there in honor of Our Lady however to be "ashamed" of others who did not, is an injustice.  Most simply do not have the resources to make such a trip and for most it is not a matter of did not but could not.  100th or 1000th anniversaries are only relevant to men, all time is now in Heaven and the requests of Our Lady were to be carried out in a temporaly designated time and manner. The popes and hierarchy refused the requests and the penalties are upon us.
And it indeed does matter if a chapel or a Church has been profaned by the false ritual and false religions. Such a place has been desecrated and profaned, and it is a Catholic practice and necessity to perform an exorcism and re-consecration for such places so as to make them fit for sacred use once more.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 02, 2017, 09:55:41 AM
That's a very good post. I would agree that the two last remedies are important. But does this mean that there is no longer any need to actively denounce the errors of Rome? Because I'm not seeing much of that from the four bishops. They could confront Pope Francis directly, regarding his errors and heresies, but they don't.

We accuse the SSPX leadership of not confronting Francis, but the four bishops of the Resistance don't do so either. Not that Francis would pay much attention, but maybe that's not the point.

The bishops have a luxurious mansion on the east coast of the U.S., meaning that they have a good monetary base. But they don't have the will to speak out and protest against Francis in a way that will defend the Faith against heresies. It's good to provide Mass centers for the faithful. But Archbishop Lefebvre was about more than that.
The SSPX has always been ineffective against the Revolution, and this new branch is shaping up to be more of the same.
The heresies which were manifest in all of the conciliar popes were never attacked as such by them, and will likely not be, until someone of note and high ecclesial rank does so first.
We are on our own in discerning these things and in trying to live the Christian life and gain eternity.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 02, 2017, 01:16:22 PM
For all those enquiring where the chapel was. It was in the basement of hotel Lynn's, Fatima. I was there with many others, and I am ashamed that not many of you came to Fatima. I am sure many of you had genuine reasons for your absence, those I don't blame you in this message.
Those who wrongfully think we shouldn't be there because of its NO occupancy, we went there for Our Lady of Fatima not for the not the NO occupants.
I for one will not apologize for being there for the 100th anniversary of the apparition.
Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I had no idea there was any kind of Resistance pilgrimage to Fatima until the day before it happened.
Was this publicized anywhere in the English-speaking world in advance?
I sure don't recall seeing it mentioned in any of the usual blogs, fora, Eleison Comments, etc.
Perhaps your shame at the smaller than hoped for attendance would be more productively communicated to our bishop's and organizers?
By the way, may I ask how you found out about this pilgrimage?
Pax,
Sean
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Avis on November 02, 2017, 01:27:23 PM
Sean 

There were 50 to 60 anglophones on the pilgrimage so they certainly knew about it. Perhaps your vicious attack on one of the four bishops stopped anyone from telling you as they assumed that you would not want to be anywhere associated with him.

Avis
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 02, 2017, 01:43:40 PM
Sean

There were 50 to 60 anglophones on the pilgrimage so they certainly knew about it. Perhaps your vicious attack on one of the four bishops stopped anyone from telling you as they assumed that you would not want to be anywhere associated with him.

Avis
Hello Avis-
Whether my "attack" (I thought I was merely voicing a disagreement) was "vicious," I leave to you to decide.
But as regards the Pilgrimage, may I presume from your answer that it was not publicly announced/posted anywhere in advance?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Avis on November 02, 2017, 01:52:29 PM
Sean

From the many people to whom I have spoken they consider your attack on the Bishop to be vicious.

I cannot understand your presumption. Clearly if there 50 to 60 anglophones present, it must have been common knowledge otherwise they would not have been there. I believe it may have been mentioned on the French Resistance forum which I guess you see as you read French.

God bless
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 02, 2017, 02:01:26 PM
Sean

There were 50 to 60 anglophones on the pilgrimage so they certainly knew about it. Perhaps your vicious attack on one of the four bishops stopped anyone from telling you as they assumed that you would not want to be anywhere associated with him.

Avis
His commentary mischaracterized as an attack was simply an observation of what the words on the page stated and I would say that Sean was pretty much on the money in his analysis of the matter.
And no one who I know knew about this event either. It came as a surprise to many people.

Sean has been a stalwart supporter of the Bishop through some of his more questionable actions and defended him vigorously on this and other forums, so to cast about the charges of malice and viciousness to his protest is unjust and untrue, and in fact this should lend to the credibility of his comments.
He tried to make an honest disagreement and give an opinion and is now a victim of blind partisan vengence.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: SeanJohnson on November 02, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
Sean

From the many people to whom I have spoken they consider your attack on the Bishop to be vicious.

I cannot understand your presumption. Clearly if there 50 to 60 anglophones present, it must have been common knowledge otherwise they would not have been there. I believe it may have been mentioned on the French Resistance forum which I guess you see as you read French.

God bless
Hello Avis-
I take from this, your 2nd dodge of the question, that you perceive where I am going with this, and for that reason refuse to answer, so I will answer for you:
The Pilgrimage was not, to the best of my knowledge, publicly posted anywhere in the English-speaking blogosphere, and this likely accounts for the sparse turnout.
Hopefully your "loyalty" does not preclude you from this common sense recognition.
As regards my "attack" being characterized as "vicious" by many, I can only say that His Excellency has warned me repeatedly in our MANY private correspondences to make sure my loyalty does not trump my recognition of truth.
Thus, the "vicious" article you refer to was written out of "loyalty" to Bishop Williamson.
I will bow out of this conversation now.
Pax tecuм,
Sean Johnson
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Avis on November 02, 2017, 02:22:19 PM
Dear me, Sean. What are you talking about? 

I said that 50 or 60 anglophones were on the pilgrimage so OBVIOUSLY they knew about it and it was not a secret ! Plus many other nationalities and a lot of French. What can't you understand about that ? Perhaps they live in the real world and don't dwell constantly on the internet. Get some trad friends and communicate with them and you may find out more in future.

You nicely avoided the comment about a mention of it on the French forum. 

So you have repeatedly communicated with the Bishop. Did you send him the article you wrote if you are so close to him? 

You have a lot of pent up aggression. Perhaps the Litany of Humility would help you.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: 777 on November 03, 2017, 04:09:34 AM
That's a very good post. I would agree that the two last remedies are important. But does this mean that there is no longer any need to actively denounce the errors of Rome? Because I'm not seeing much of that from the four bishops. They could confront Pope Francis directly, regarding his errors and heresies, but they don't.

We accuse the SSPX leadership of not confronting Francis, but the four bishops of the Resistance don't do so either. Not that Francis would pay much attention, but maybe that's not the point.

The bishops have a luxurious mansion on the east coast of the U.S., meaning that they have a good monetary base. But they don't have the will to speak out and protest against Francis in a way that will defend the Faith against heresies. It's good to provide Mass centers for the faithful. But Archbishop Lefebvre was about more than that.
Indeed. In his sermons and Eleison comments he doesn't attack pope Francis like SSPX, or bishop Fellay. I agree with him about bishop Fellay, but I expected more attacks towards Francis. But instead, he defends Putin... It is evidence how far the errors of communism are spreaded...
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Meg on November 03, 2017, 10:44:05 AM
Indeed. In his sermons and Eleison comments he doesn't attack pope Francis like SSPX, or bishop Fellay. I agree with him about bishop Fellay, but I expected more attacks towards Francis. But instead, he defends Putin... It is evidence how far the errors of communism are spreaded...

I don't see that Bp. Fellay or the SSPX have actually attacked Pope Francis. Not in a real way, anyway, IMO.

Archbishop Lefebvre did speak out about the errors of JP2, especially the false ecuмenism. Bp. Fellay should denounce Pope Francis, but he doesn't.

Putin does have a religious sense, but not a Catholic sense, IMO. Bp. Williamson has said in the past that Russia may become an instrument of chastisement in Europe, based on certain prophesies from saints of the past, though I don't recall the details just now.

Putin is more religious than the average European leader, and he will do whatever it takes to defend his country, even if it means invading other countries. I do recall seeing a lecture by Putin, in which he said that Communism did reflect some values of Christianity. I have to disagree with that. I don't think that Putin has denounced Communism as having spread its errors, and that Communism has been responsible for millions of deaths throughout the world since the Soviet Era.

Anyway, no traditionalist has really confronted Francis like they should. Only some of the Novus Ordo/Indult types in the Conciliar Church have actually confronted him, and even then it's only by writing letters. There needs to be a more concerted effort to confront Francis directly. But no one, it seems,  is brave enough to do so.

I think that Archbishop Lefebvre held back the full tide of Modernism, though he wasn't able to stop its advance, of course. What would St. Athanasius do?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Nooseph Polten on November 03, 2017, 11:56:42 AM
The Resistance bishops have their R&R position, which does not allow them the freedom to say what they really believe in their hearts.
Who are you to know "what they really believe in their hearts", o holy omniscient being? 
What an idiotic comment!
Many of you sedevacantists seem to really think that you know what's going on in everyone's head. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: hollingsworth on November 03, 2017, 03:45:59 PM

Quote
The SSPX has always been ineffective against the Revolution, and this new branch is shaping up to be more of the same.

It's difficult to argue that you're wrong.  If the sspx has had any real impact upon reversing the post-conciliar "Revolution," I for one fail to see it.  Fellay & Co. may argue that the "extraordinary" mass and the so-called "lifting" of the excommunications has at least interrupted the onslaught of V2 modernism.  I feel, however, that facts on the ground belie any such claim.  It's Lefebvrism and most of the independent traditional offshoots, which have basically fallen short, IMO.  New Church, headed by one of history's worst popes, seems to be carrying out its agenda, without too much significant push back. 
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 03, 2017, 04:23:55 PM
It's difficult to argue that you're wrong.  If the sspx has had any real impact upon reversing the post-conciliar "Revolution," I for one fail to see it.  Fellay & Co. may argue that the "extraordinary" mass and the so-called "lifting" of the excommunications has at least interrupted the onslaught of V2 modernism.  I feel, however, that facts on the ground belie any such claim.  It's Lefebvrism and most of the independent traditional offshoots, which have basically fallen short, IMO.  New Church, headed by one of history's worst popes, seems to be carrying out its agenda, without too much significant push back.
I pretty much agree with you, but the lifting of the excomunications and the declaration recognizing the "mass" did not really affect the bulk of Tradition. It was more of an internal non-victory for SSPXism.
The Revolution has not been seriously impeded at all by the neo-Traditionalists.
Both of the SSPX groups are constrained by their own theology from saying or doing anything beyond a low level of indirect criticism.  Here they are at Fatima which has become a worldwide center for ecuмenism and the wickedness of conciliarism, things which deserve the heartiest of condemnation, but a smiling photo-op is the best that they have to offer. Meanwhile layfolk in Belgium are confronting the heretics and their love fest with the Lutheran heretics, quoting Catholic doctrine and with the Rosary, and thier bodies, and being carried away for doing so.
Even some Novus Ordoites are shaming the Traditional movement and its clergy.
One might think that the sad state of the Church in Portugal might at least prod a passing comment when standing upon the desecrated ground where blasphemy roams free.
I have said it many times over, the Church desparately needs a true counter-revolutionary movement. Pray to God that he will raise a pious soul who will begin it. Quoting the Psalm, "it is time to do, O Lord."
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: 777 on November 03, 2017, 06:02:34 PM
I don't see that Bp. Fellay or the SSPX have actually attacked Pope Francis. Not in a real way, anyway, IMO.

I think that Archbishop Lefebvre held back the full tide of Modernism, though he wasn't able to stop its advance, of course. What would St. Athanasius do?
Bp. Williamson also didn't attacked pope Francis in a real way. I'm still waiting for this to happen. 
We need both ( Archbishop Lefebvre and St. Athanasius) to help us in today's greatest crisis in the Church.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: Sigismund on November 03, 2017, 06:04:26 PM
A minor point, but why are the bishops wearing black cassocks for the Mass? Also, I thought traditionalist bishops refrained from wearing the mozetta because they lack jurisdiction and the garment was restricted to bishops with jurisdiction before VC II.  Is this incorrect?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: hollingsworth on November 04, 2017, 12:49:03 AM

Quote
I have said it many times over, the Church desperately needs a true counter-revolutionary movement. Pray to God that he will raise a pious soul who will begin it. Quoting the Psalm, "it is time to do, O Lord."

You say the Church needs a "counter-revolutionary movement."  Maybe.  But Our Lady said nothing about a counter-revolution to Sr. Lucy.  If in 1957, 60 years ago, Fr. Augustin Fuentes reflected Our Lady's words correctly, then we must believe that just "two last remedies" remain for the faithful.  These are the Holy Rosary, and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  There are no other remedies, She solemnly warns.
It was the Rosary,remember, which was responsible for the defeat of the Muslims by the outnumbered Christian army at the Battle of Lepanto. It was the Rosary which delivered Austria from Soviet Communism immediately after WWII. 
Before he became pope John Paul I, Albino Luciano, Cardinal of Venice, paid a visit to Sr. Lucy at Coimbra.  She must have revealed the 3rd Secret to him, because he came away shaken, exclaiming, "it's terrible!"  Though he was probably somewhat of a liberal in the mold of Roncalli prior to his visit, he began thereafter to urge the recitation of the Rosary, in order, he said, to "avert apostasy."   Had this pope lived, he might have done the consecration of Russia.  But JPI survived in office only 33 days.
So, I believe, Bp Williamson is well justified in exhorting us continually to say the Rosary, (preferably 15 decades daily).  The bishop, I think, knows whereof and whatof he speaks.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 04, 2017, 10:47:27 AM
Without prejudice to Fatima or its message, I do not believe that any apparition relieves us individually or collectively from our resposibilities in matters of defending and propagating the Faith of Christ.  We were not incarnated into corporal bodies to do nothing but wait for the Heavenly realm to solve all of our problems. Christ came into the world as a man in a human body because it was necessary to accomplish His will.

But more on point, the corruption of the Church and the Faith rests almost exclusively with the hierarchy.
It came by every Bishop that affixed his signature to the docuмents of Vatican II, and every priest who went against the Church by accepting the new  non-Catholic religion which came from it.

It is therefore most heavily the responsibility of the hierarchy to battle the corruption and to see that order and orthodoxy are restored to the Church by whatever means is available to them, as it is with them that the power and authority of the Church is bestowed that they might correct the fault of those who are among them.
In this, the hierarchy has utterly failed and abdicated its holy responsibilities. I gave an excellent example of Catholics in Belgium doing what the hierarchy should be doing to battle this scoundrel in the Vatican.
It is shameful and a commentary upon the effeminate and flacid responses of our clerics to the ongoing pillaging of the Church and the corruption of uncounted souls.

As I said, we are on our own with only God to help us as His lieutenants are on a self imposed strike.

     
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: cebu on November 05, 2017, 07:28:50 AM
Sean Johnson, you made comments earlier on in this discussion and other articles on your website which could have been lifted from a pfeifferite site. You have their same bitter misdirected zeal. Are you moving in their direction in your opinions?

C.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: ultrarigorist on November 05, 2017, 07:46:29 AM
Sean Johnson, you made comments earlier on in this discussion and other articles on your website which could have been lifted from a pfeifferite site. You have their same bitter misdirected zeal. Are you moving in their direction in your opinions?

C.
Cebu,
Maybe it would be better if you could actually demonstrate how Sean's zeal is "bitter and misdirected" instead of just lobbing a rotten "cyber-tomato" at him, yes?
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: JPaul on November 05, 2017, 09:20:29 AM
Sean Johnson, you made comments earlier on in this discussion and other articles on your website which could have been lifted from a pfeifferite site. You have their same bitter misdirected zeal. Are you moving in their direction in your opinions?

C.
Mr. Johnson's comments were a rational and accurate observation. But, such objective critiques will always be taken in the wrong spirit, and mischaracterized by the sectarian partisans. It is the nature of narrow human loyalties.
Title: Re: Bishop Williamson at Fatima
Post by: hismajesty on November 05, 2017, 09:31:05 AM
Mr. Johnson's comments were a rational and accurate observation. But, such objective critiques will always be taken in the wrong spirit, and mischaracterized by the sectarian partisans. It is the nature of narrow human loyalties.

I agree.

I have criticized Mr. Johnson before because sometimes he can be over the top. But he is right here.

There is a simplistic approach being taken by many, including priests, that if you make any criticisms, especially of the bishops, then you must be a Pfeifferite.

Sorry, but if you can't take the heat, step out of the fire.

The objective fact of the matter is that the pilgrimage was not advertised publically anywhere on the english  speaking trad internet.


It is not "bitter" to point this out. There was poor organization and we have to admit it.

People seem not to be learning, especially after the whole controversy recently over Bishop Z's residence. In the age of the internet, there is very little you can hide, so there is not point trying (for it's own sake)