Hi AK,
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that because the men in the Holy Office might have been liberal/modernist that it is ok to ignore the condemnation. Is this correct?
Substantial proof would seem necessary to justify that. Bishop Williamson does not even bother to attempt giving such proof in his current comments.
Was Cardinal Ottaviani a modernist? (Pro-Secretary of the Congregation of the Holy Office (1953–1959) Secretary of the Congregation of the Holy Office (1959–1966))
Is there evidence that Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P were modernists?
The passage that I cited above gives several reasons for condemnation. Are any of then in error?
How about the main supporters of the work? Fr. Berti broke his signed promise and Pisani printed the books knowing that he was contradicting the Holy Office. Also a big promoter of the Poem was Fr. (later Cardinal) Bea.
I have spent many hours on this subject and have yet to find anything to convince me to ignore the original condemnation. I hope what I have written is of some help to you, AK.
Thanks for the response, Emile.
I believe there are some misunderstandings what you mentioned.
Second, the long speeches of Jesus and Mary starkly contrast with the evangelists, who portray Jesus as "humble, reserved; His discourses are lean, incisive." Valtorta's fictionalized history makes Jesus sound "like a chatterbox, always ready to proclaim Himself the Messiah and the Son of God," or teach theology in modern terms. The Blessed Mother speaks like a "propagandist" for modern Marian theology.
How about the Dialogue of St Catherine of Siena?
Didn't God the Father also talk to the saint like a chatterbox mentioned in this opinion?
I can't understand how can people judge God as their own criterion.
Third, "some passages are rather risque," like the "immodest" dance before Pilate (vol. 5, p. 73). There are "many historical, geographical and other blunders." For instance, Jesus uses screwdrivers (Vol. 1, pp. 195, 223), centuries before screws existed.
The seers only can describe with their own vocabulary at the time.
BTW, for omniscient Our Lord, is it not possible the screwdrivers to be there strictly?
There are theological errors, as when "Jesus says" (vol. 1, p. 30) that Eve's temptation consisted in arousing her flesh, as the serpent sensuously "caressed" her. While she "began the sin by herself," she "accomplished it with her companion." Sun Myung Moon and Maria Valtorta may claim the first sin was sɛҳuąƖ, but Scripture does not.
"And the eyes of them both were opened : and when they perceived themselves to be naked, they sewed together fig leaves, and made themselves aprons."(Gen 3, 7)
Is there not any probability for the first sin as sɛҳuąƖ on this sentence?
And,
The Mystical City of God, Book 1, Chapter 4.
On these accounts his wrath was greater against Eve than against Adam. Before he showed himself to her, however, he aroused her in many disturbing thoughts or imaginations, in order to approach her in a state of excitement and pre–occupation. But because I have written this in another place, I will not enlarge here upon the violence and inhumanity of this temptation; it is enough for my purpose to mention what Scripture says: that he took the form of a serpent (Gen. 2, 1), and thus speaking to Eve drew her into a conversation, which she should not have permitted.
Vol. 1, p. 7, oddly claims, "Mary can be called the 'second-born' of the Father . . ." Her explanation limits the meaning, avoiding evidence of an authentic heresy; but it does not take away the basic impression that she wants to construct a new mariology, which simply goes beyond the limits of propriety."
We don't know about the mystery of Our Lady exactly.
Our Lady's existence itself is an incomprehensible mystery, because she bore God Himself.
No human being can understand this properly on earth.
We hadn't even known the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption as Dogma before they were declared.
And even St. Thomas Aquinas was not exactly precise on the Immaculate Conception, then how can we who live in this horrendous time contaminated by Modernism rightly judge something about Our Lady with good certainty?
"Another strange and imprecise statement" made of Mary (vol. 4, p. 240) is that she will "be second to Peter with regard to ecclesiastical hierarchy. . . " Our Lady surpasses St. Peter's holiness, but she is not in the hierarchy, let alone second to St. Peter.
When she was in the Holy Family, she was second to St. Joseph.
Then, is it not certain that she was second to St. Peter when she was still on earth before the Assumption? : "For it is a shame for a woman to speak in the church."(1Cor 14, 35)
BTW, how can God the Son obey to a man St. Joseph?
I believe there is a mystery of the virtue of humility on this matter.
If there is no evidence that proves Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P were modernists, is there evidence that proves they were not modernists?
I don't think it is possible to distinguish whether someone is a modernist or some other is a liberal with categorical determination when there is no ABSOLUTE substantial proof because Liberalism and Modernism has prevailed too much for a long time in the Church.
For instance, I was a liberal and a modernist when I was a Novus Ordo Catholic, but ironically I had Catholic faith though it was insufficient.
Certainly, I have been taught true faith more exactly, clearly, and fully since I had converted to Traditional Catholic, but I never can deny that I had Catholic faith when I was a Novus Ordo as a liberal and a modernist described by papal encyclicals and docuмents.
I was in invincible ignorance, but it doesn't mean that I was not a liberal and a modernist.
Namely, though I was a liberal and a modernist, I had Catholic faith.
If I made a judgment for something about faith with that insufficient faith, it must have been wrong, but it still doesn't mean that I didn't have faith.
It is a mystery for me, but at the same time it is in reality.
In any case, there is no evidence that proves Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P were modernists, but vice versa.
However, still, if the Catholic Encyclopedia(1913) was able to be wrong, then they were also able to be wrong insofar as the Poem doesn't have any error which can be demonstrated irrefutably.
I believe this is very difficult matter for someone who seeks the substantial proof.
But the substantial proof is not always necessary for our faith, isn't it?
"Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed : blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed."(John 20, 29)
I also struggled with this problem quite much time, but finally I decided to read all volumes of the Poem with incredulity to check it.
What I did for this matter was to entrust to the Church authority of which I was able to be convinced only.
Then now I don't have any doubt on the Poem, and am profited from it incredibly.