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Author Topic: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism  (Read 3172 times)

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Offline Cantarella

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Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 11:51:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:38:57 AM
    Nooooo...it just means that Rome is in apostasy, according to +ABL.  Just because you sedes obsess on the Pope doesn't mean that everyone else has to.

    Well, if the "pope" is not the pope, then every.single.thing makes sense.

    But if the "pope" is a true pope, then nothing does.

    And Catholicism is finished.


    This meme may be true:

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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 11:56:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on April 26, 2018, 11:51:32 AM
    Well, if the "pope" is not the pope, then every.single.thing makes sense.

    But if the "pope" is a true pope, then nothing does.

    And Catholicism is finished.


    This meme may be true:


    Have you watched the video in the O.P? Here's a quote from it:

    "The papacy would last forever, like the Church, one and indestructible, being founded on the Pope then living."

    ~Pope Pius Xll
     1949
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 11:57:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:50:10 AM
    Have you watched the video in the O.P.?
    Still no answer I see.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 12:02:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 11:57:53 AM
    Still no answer I see.

    Since you likely haven't bothered to view the video, here's a quote from it:

    "The Church designed by God to rest upon the living Pope cannot have existed for the last half century (1962-2014) without one."

    ~"Living Popes," by Bishop Williamson
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #19 on: April 26, 2018, 12:05:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:56:23 AM
    Have you watched the video in the O.P? Here's a quote from it:

    "The papacy would last forever, like the Church, one and indestructible, being founded on the Pope then living."

    ~Pope Pius Xll
     1949

    That does not completely discard the possibility on an anti-pope being elected and usurping the Seat of Peter.
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 12:08:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 12:02:54 PM
    Since you likely haven't bothered to view the video, here's a quote from it:

    "The Church designed by God to rest upon the living Pope cannot have existed for the last half century (1962-2014) without one."

    ~"Living Popes," by Bishop Williamson
    Still no answer.  Just Bishop Williamson's opinion.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 12:09:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on April 26, 2018, 12:05:39 PM
    That does not completely discard the possibility on an anti-pope being elected and usurping the Seat of Peter.
    Once again, we are witnessing confusion between "pope" and "papacy".
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 12:11:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 12:02:54 PM
    Since you likely haven't bothered to view the video, here's a quote from it:

    "The Church designed by God to rest upon the living Pope cannot have existed for the last half century (1962-2014) without one."

    ~"Living Popes," by Bishop Williamson

    Do you think the Church designed by God includes a continual succession of heretical Popes, which Catholics must severe communion from, as to preserve the Faith?

    In your view, the terrestrial head of the Church has turned to be in fact Her enemy. 

    What type of Church that is?
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    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #23 on: April 26, 2018, 12:15:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
    Still no answer.  Just Bishop Williamson's opinion.

    No doubt you believe that your opinion is worth SO MUCH MORE than Bishop Williamsons'.

    Here's another quote from the video:

    "Consider what Archbishop Lefebvre said in late 1979 in a conference to Econe seminarians:

    "We must be prudent. It is obvious that if Pope Paul Vl was not pope, then the cardinals he appointed are not cardinals, so they cannot have elected John-Paul l, and they cannot have validly elected John-Paul ll, that much is clear."
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #24 on: April 26, 2018, 12:21:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on April 26, 2018, 12:11:08 PM
    Do you think the Church designed by God includes a continual succession of heretical Popes, which Catholics must severe communion from, as to preserve the Faith?

    In your view, the terrestrial head of the Church has turned to be in fact Her enemy.

    What type of Church that is?

    Here's another quote from the video:

    "Sedevacantists frequently exaggerate the Church's indefectibility, just as they frequently exaggerate the Popes' infallibility, because that is what they need to support their emotional horror at what has become of the Church since the Council."

    ~'Sedevacantism Again - ll,' by Bishop Williamsom
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #25 on: April 26, 2018, 12:39:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 12:15:16 PM
    No doubt you believe that your opinion is worth SO MUCH MORE than Bishop Williamsons'.

    Here's another quote from the video:

    "Consider what Archbishop Lefebvre said in late 1979 in a conference to Econe seminarians:

    "We must be prudent. It is obvious that if Pope Paul Vl was not pope, then the cardinals he appointed are not cardinals, so they cannot have elected John-Paul l, and they cannot have validly elected John-Paul ll, that much is clear."
    I do think my opinion is the correct one, but it's not MY opinion.  It is the opinion of other Catholic bishops and clergy.

    So, tell me, Meg how does this quote square with ABL's comment that "Rome is in apostasy". You said he said this.  He seems to be arguing against the idea that Rome is in apostasy here. 
     
    A half a dozen posts later referencing a video that doesn't answer my question, you still haven't explained what ABL meant by "Rome is in apostasy"...so what does it mean?  You're the one who brought it up in the first place.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #26 on: April 26, 2018, 12:48:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 12:39:40 PM
    I do think my opinion is the correct one, but it's not MY opinion.  It is the opinion of other Catholic bishops and clergy.

    So, tell me, Meg how does this quote square with ABL's comment that "Rome is in apostasy". You said he said this.  He seems to be arguing against the idea that Rome is in apostasy here.
     
    A half a dozen posts later referencing a video that doesn't answer my question, you still haven't explained what ABL meant by "Rome is in apostasy"...so what does it mean?  You're the one who brought it up in the first place.

    I already provided you with an answer. That you think it insufficient is your problem. When Pontius Pilate asked Our Lord..."What is truth,?" was Pilate really interested in truth? It would seem not; hence Our Lord did not respond to him.

    Another quote from the video:

    "Like liberals, the sedevacantists are thinking humanly, all too humanly."

    from 'Sedevacantism again' by Bishop Williamson

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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #27 on: April 26, 2018, 12:55:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 12:39:40 PM
    A half a dozen posts later referencing a video that doesn't answer my question, you still haven't explained what ABL meant by "Rome is in apostasy"...so what does it mean?  You're the one who brought it up in the first place.

    Wrong, as usual. It was Hollingsworth who brought it up in the first place.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #28 on: April 26, 2018, 12:57:32 PM »
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    • All Meg knows is anti-sedevacantism.   :really-mad2:

    Got an anti-sede quote?  Give it to Meg.  She'll use it to answer any question she doesn't know the answer to!   :laugh2:
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 12:58:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 12:57:32 PM
    All Meg knows is anti-sedevacantism.   :really-mad2:

    Got an anti-sede quote?  Give it to Meg.  She'll use it to answer any question she doesn't know the answer to!   :laugh2:

    Sedes can't be reasoned with. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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