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Author Topic: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism  (Read 3169 times)

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Offline John XYZ

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Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
« on: April 25, 2018, 06:05:07 PM »
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    Offline St Ignatius

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: April 25, 2018, 06:40:11 PM »
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    • Thank you John XYZ... I realize that these opinions are only of one lonely bishop crying out in the wilderness, but they're like a breath of fresh air in these most troubling times... Thanks again.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 10:37:10 AM »
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    • Very good video. Thanks for posting it. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 11:13:49 AM »
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    • If one has only the quotes from Bp Williamson on this short video, I'm not certain that H.E. makes an airtight argument for the rejection of sedevacantism.  I know several sedes who would be highly offended at the notion that their views on the post-conciliar papacy are basically "liberal." The idea that we can reject almost everything that conciliar popes and bishops do and say, while, at the same time, recognizing their God-given authority and office, is highly problematic for many traditional Catholics.  I think that Williamson has sympathized in the past with the contradictions posed by the present situation, and has cut some slack to the sincere sedevacantist.  I don't think that he rejects or their position out of hand.  He is a bit more tolerant than that.  But hey, if I misrepresent his sentiments, then please offer correction.

    In the end, a genuine pope, in concert with genuine bishops, must make the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Meanwhile, the record seems to be replete with statements from no less than ABL himself that the Vatican is in all but total apostasy, and that the highest posts in the church are occupied by virtual "anti-Christs."  
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 11:20:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: hollingsworth on April 26, 2018, 11:13:49 AM
    If one has only the quotes from Bp Williamson on this short video, I'm not certain that H.E. makes an airtight argument for the rejection of sedevacantism.  I know several sedes who would be highly offended at the notion that their views on the post-conciliar papacy are basically "liberal." The idea that we can reject almost everything that conciliar popes and bishops do and say, while, at the same time, recognizing their God-given authority and office, is highly problematic for many traditional Catholics.  I think that Williamson has sympathized in the past with the contradictions posed by the present situation, and has cut some slack to the sincere sedevacantist.  I don't think that he rejects or their position out of hand.  He is a bit more tolerant than that.  But hey, if I misrepresent his sentiments, then please offer correction.

    In the end, a genuine pope, in concert with genuine bishops, must make the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Meanwhile, the record seems to be replete with statements from no less than ABL himself that the Vatican is in all but total apostasy, and that the highest posts in the church are occupied by virtual "anti-Christs."  

    The idea of the sedes being "liberal" isn't new. And yes, I can imagine that some sedes would be offended by this idea, but then sedes are often easily offended. They are far too wrapped-up in their views on the subject. 

    +ABL did say that Rome is in apostasy. But still, he never said that the Chair of Peter is vacant. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 11:29:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:20:13 AM
    +ABL did say that Rome is in apostasy. But still, he never said that the Chair of Peter is vacant.

    That was long time ago.

    Who knows what the Archbishop would say today in times of Francis' pontificate.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 11:31:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on April 26, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
    That was long time ago.

    Who knows what the Archbishop would say today in times of Francis' pontificate.

    Why would he say anything different?
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 11:34:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:20:13 AM

    +ABL did say that Rome is in apostasy. But still, he never said that the Chair of Peter is vacant.
    Just an apostate that sits in it. Phew.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 11:35:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 11:34:37 AM
    Just an apostate that sits in it. Phew.

    He did not single out the pope when he said that ROME is in apostasy. For him, it was/is a systemic problem. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 11:37:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:35:54 AM
    He did not single out the pope when he said that ROME is in apostasy. For him, it was/is a systemic problem.
    So, Rome in apostasy just means everyone EXCEPT the pope.  Oooooo Kaaaaay.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 11:38:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 11:37:10 AM
    So, Rome in apostasy just means everyone EXCEPT the pope.  Oooooo Kaaaaay.  

    Nooooo...it just means that Rome is in apostasy, according to +ABL.  Just because you sedes obsess on the Pope doesn't mean that everyone else has to. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 11:42:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:38:57 AM
    Nooooo...it just means that Rome is in apostasy, according to +ABL.  Just because you sedes obsess on the Pope doesn't mean that everyone else has to.
    Oh so the city of Rome is in apostasy?
    Really Meg do tell me what "Rome is in apostasy" means if it doesn't mean that (all of) the hierarchy is in apostasy? I'm just a simple minded sede.  Please enlighten me. I don't get it.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #12 on: April 26, 2018, 11:47:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 11:42:26 AM
    Oh so the city of Rome is in apostasy?
    Really Meg do tell me what "Rome is in apostasy" means if it doesn't mean that (all of) the hierarchy is in apostasy? I'm just a simple minded sede.  Please enlighten me. I don't get it.

    Enlighten you? That's not possible. You are not enlightenable. You already know everything, right?

    You can get all upset and emotional over your precious views, and demand that I further explain what +ABL meant, but I'm not going to do that.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #13 on: April 26, 2018, 11:48:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on April 26, 2018, 11:47:04 AM
    Enlighten you? That's not possible. You are not enlightenable. You already know everything, right?

    You can get all upset and emotional over your precious views, and demand that I further explain what +ABL meant, but I'm not going to do that.
    That's because you don't have an answer.  
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Bishop Williamson against sedevacantism
    « Reply #14 on: April 26, 2018, 11:50:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on April 26, 2018, 11:48:18 AM
    That's because you don't have an answer.  

    Have you watched the video in the O.P.? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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